Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by fenton

The videos that I'm going to work on this weekend will show normal driving. This system is on demand. When you want it you push it down and you are greeted by a heard of magically Internet unicorns haha :-)

I can't stop driving the car, it's just a blast to go part throttle up to 3500 rpm and matt it, at 4500 rpm we are up 60 HP from stock.

Took the fiancé out for a drive today..... I got the "what happened to this car it feels like the subaru" my last car was a stage 1 2011 sti sedan. :-)

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It is great to have a normally driven condition. Thanks Fenton. I am curious as in how this system drain the battery, and what will it behave in low battery condition. Say, if you drive it at 60mph for 1 hour will u lose power ?

It will be interesting to see a normally driven FRS on the dyno at maximum of 75mph without WOT VS a car with this system under the same condition.

I suspect this system without it running properly or at low battery will drag the stock engine power down, because it just becomes an obstacle in the intake.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

It is great to have a normally driven condition. Thanks Fenton. I am curious as in how this system drain the battery, and what will it behave in low battery condition. Say, if you drive it at 60mph for 1 hour will u lose power ?

It will be interesting to see a normally driven FRS on the dyno at maximum of 75mph without WOT VS a car with this system under the same condition.

I suspect this system without it running properly or at low battery will drag the stock engine power down, because it just becomes an obstacle in the intake.

It's been stated that the motor controller will spin the compressor just enough to not be a restriction so it doesn't cause in increase in pumping loses. The charger shouldn't have any trouble keeping up with this demand and charging the superchargers batteries.

If you drive for one hour at 60 mph you shouldn't ever get to wide open throttle and thus will never turn on the supercharger, other then the "idle" turning to reduce pumping loses.

If the two batteries for the supercharger are depleted the remaining third battery for the starting and charging system of the car will still be there, still working fine. The superchargers electric charger (we need a short hand for this) will be charging the superchargers batteries, but at a rate that shouldn't cause any noticeable difference in engine output. At the 8:1 discharge to charging ratio that was stated before that would be about the same as running your rear window defroster. Factoring in some efficiency losses in the system, at most I would guess it would be like running your rear window defroster while having your headlights on. Given the 135 amp alternator already fitted to the twins, this shouldn't be a problem.

Why would this kit require wide open throttle at 75 mph? Or do you mean accelerating to 75 mph, with and without the kit? Fenton posted dynos of his car with and without the kit, this should give you a pretty good idea of how the kit will change things.

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by Calum

It's been stated that the motor controller will spin the compressor just enough to not be a restriction so it doesn't cause in increase in pumping loses. The charger shouldn't have any trouble keeping up with this demand and charging the superchargers batteries.

If you drive for one hour at 60 mph you shouldn't ever get to wide open throttle and thus will never turn on the supercharger, other then the "idle" turning to reduce pumping loses.

If the two batteries for the supercharger are depleted the remaining third battery for the starting and charging system of the car will still be there, still working fine. The superchargers electric charger (we need a short hand for this) will be charging the superchargers batteries, but at a rate that shouldn't cause any noticeable difference in engine output. At the 8:1 discharge to charging ratio that was stated before that would be about the same as running your rear window defroster. Factoring in some efficiency losses in the system, at most I would guess it would be like running your rear window defroster while having your headlights on. Given the 135 amp alternator already fitted to the twins, this shouldn't be a problem.

Why would this kit require wide open throttle at 75 mph? Or do you mean accelerating to 75 mph, with and without the kit? Fenton posted dynos of his car with and without the kit, this should give you a pretty good idea of how the kit will change things.

Theoriotically is easier said than done. How would this idle turning cope with constant foots tappering the pedal on and off which varies engine speed by 500-1000 rpm. This is typical daily drive and cruise.

How would the SC realize the change of pace from the engine without WOT. Will it be sluggish as restrictions ?

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

Theoriotically is easier said than done. How would this idle turning cope with constant foots tappering the pedal on and off which varies engine speed by 500-1000 rpm. This is typical daily drive and cruise.

How would the SC realize the change of pace from the engine without WOT. Will it be sluggish as restrictions ?

To the best of my knowledge the supercharger won't change pace. Yes there will be engine conditions where the SC might be turning faster or slower then would be ideal. I doubt it will be that noticeable but this technology is in its infancy and these are some of the issues that can be solved with greater control and development.

[Rayme]

It's great to see a product like this that finally works. After refinement I hope it would be able to work at various throttle input!

[fenton]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

What IAT's are you logging?

And when is someone going to make a proper controller for it so you can have turbo speed/pressure controlled by tps/rpm?

Right now the iats are not accurate because the maf is before the charger. Does anyone know if there is there another sensor we can log post super.

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[fenton]

Originally Posted by ottopilot

It's great to see a product like this that finally works. After refinement I hope it would be able to work at various throttle input!

Problem with various throttle inputs is that you probably end up draining the batteries faster as you would always be in it a certain amount. As people have said this concept is in its infancy, lots of interesting stuff is going to happen as this project evolves.

Lots of good input so far, keep the questions and comments coming.

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[SloS14]

Originally Posted by fenton

Problem with various throttle inputs is that you probably end up draining the batteries faster as you would always be in it a certain amount. As people have said this concept is in its infancy, lots of interesting stuff is going to happen as this project evolves.

Lots of good input so far, keep the questions and comments coming.

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I could see the controller having a mode to allow partial throttle reduced boost for spirited driving, autox, etc that the user could set turbo RPM to different throttle points, etc. That'd be neat.

Regarding removing restriction during cruising: What about a vacuum operated bypass valve (with solenoid) to bypass the turbo? During cruise, the solenoid would allow engine vacuum to keep the bypass open and once the controller goes into "boost" mode, it cuts the solenoid off, and boost pressure is used to keep the bypass closed? That way you're not constantly working the ESC and motor.

[Calum]

Realistically, the end goal should be to have things mapped so that power increases at a smooth rate throughout the pedal travel, ending with the supercharger at full speed. But the supercharger wouldn't need to start making boost until about 60 percent throttle at which point the throttle plate would be fully open and the engine would be making its full NA power. With the addition of a switch, or possibly a different map within an Ecuek tune, it could be set to not come on at all.

This would be a big departure from the norm of using the throttle plate to control everything and could cut down on those 'partial' throttle pumping losses.

When I first started reading this thread I thought the gains would be minimal, maybe 20 ftlbs down low with little to nothing up top. Now I'm thinking this is just some time, development, and tuning away from being a viable option for me.

[neutron256]

I'm no tuner but what if you used an electronic boost sensor and used that to control the motor speed to maintain a constant boost pressure even as the engine speed changed. It would be a pretty simple Controler to build/program.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by neutron256

I'm no tuner but what if you used an electronic boost sensor and used that to control the motor speed to maintain a constant boost pressure even as the engine speed changed. It would be a pretty simple Controler to build/program.

In theory yes only problem is to make the same booat across the power band you need exponentially more rpms on the dc motor. The motor would not be able to handle this and you batteries would drain exponentially as well.

One if the best parts of this system right now is it is dead simple, install is super easy and so is uninstall.

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[jamesm]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

What IAT's are you logging?

And when is someone going to make a proper controller for it so you can have turbo speed/pressure controlled by tps/rpm?

if i had one near me to play with i'd be more than happy to hack something together. unfortunately i just installed a turbo or i'd buy one to experiment with. well, not unfortunately, i love the turbo

[fenton]

Originally Posted by jamesm

if i had one near me to play with i'd be more than happy to hack something together. unfortunately i just installed a turbo or i'd buy one to experiment with. well, not unfortunately, i love the turbo

I would love to do turbo but the install plus supporting mods is just way to far out of my budget.

Even right now we almost have to upgrade the clutch. When we get the tune on next week I'm thinking we are going to be hitting 220tq between 2000rpm and 3000 during the "torque hump" of the power band.

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[jamesm]

Originally Posted by fenton

I would love to do turbo but the install plus supporting mods is just way to far out of my budget.

Even right now we almost have to upgrade the clutch. When we get the tune on next week I'm thinking we are going to be hitting 220tq between 2000rpm and 3000 during the "torque hump" of the power band.

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i'm still on the stock clutch, it's going to die soon i'm sure. i'd think that with the way the boost comes on with the electric setup it'd be even rougher. a great problem to have