Kraftwerks Rotrex Supercharger Discussion

[gmsii]

***Important Annoucement from KW***

After meeting with our sales and marketing team, we are excited to announce the following special pricing for the first 30 customers

KW BRZ/FRS Base 'You Tune' Kit = $3695* ....(reg. $4295)

KW BRZ/FRS Base kit + KW(Ecutek) Map = $3895* .... (reg $4495)
- does not include EcuTek Cable or License

KW BRZ/FRS Fully Tuned Kit = $4495*....(reg. $5095)
- includes Ecutek Cable and License

* Pricing Does Not Included Applicable Tax or Shipping Charges

Note: KW Maps were developed in conjunction with by Bill Knose of Delicious tuning

Jump on this offer now...you will be hard pressed to find a better deal elsewhere.

Place you order today. Hold your spot with a $300 deposit:
http://store.kraftwerksusa.com/super...s-brz-787.html

- before shipping your order, a customer service rep will contact you to determine what tuning option you would like to choose and see if there are any other specially discounted products you would like to bundle with your order (ie oil cooler kit) to determine your final balance.

[imom]

Originally Posted by gmsii

***Important Annoucement from KW***

After meeting with our sales and marketing team, we are excited to announce the following special pricing for the first 30 customers

KW BRZ/FRS Base 'You Tune' Kit = $3695* ....(reg. $4295)

KW BRZ/FRS Base kit + KW(Ecutek) Map = $3895* .... (reg $4495)
- does not include EcuTek Cable or License

KW BRZ/FRS Fully Tuned Kit = $4495*....(reg. $5095)
- includes Ecutek Cable and License

* Pricing Does Not Included Applicable Tax or Shipping Charges

Note: KW Maps were developed in conjunction with by Bill Knose of Delicious tuning

Jump on this offer now...you will be hard pressed to find a better deal elsewhere.

Place you order today. Hold your spot with a $300 deposit:
http://store.kraftwerksusa.com/super...s-brz-787.html

- before shipping your order, a customer service rep will contact you to determine what tuning option you would like to choose and see if there are any other specially discounted products you would like to bundle with your order (ie oil cooler kit) to determine your final balance.

Why not hold these prices for all as a selling point? There are many other induction systems in the same price range. There are a few systems now that are CARB approved. The KW system to me is brand new just released and there are unknown and risks involved... it's pretty risky to go for a new system not knowing what bugs in the system haven't been ironed out yet. It's a big item for many to buy so the price would definitely swing to your favor if the performance, quality, and price was in your favor.

Limiting the 30 who deposit seems to be the beta testers discount. Looking forward to more information on your system.

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by imom

Why not hold these prices for all as a selling point? There are many other induction systems in the same price range. There are a few systems now that are CARB approved. The KW system to me is brand new just released and there are unknown and risks involved... it's pretty risky to go for a new system not knowing what bugs in the system haven't been ironed out yet. It's a big item for many to buy so the price would definitely swing to your favor if the performance, quality, and price was in your favor.

Limiting the 30 who deposit seems to be the beta testers discount. Looking forward to more information on your system.

the pre-order discount is offered as incentive for people to be early adopters and take the plunge; i think the $600 savings is quite substantial.

we understand your concerns now, but once the kit comes out, those concerns will no longer be. we are confident in the design and engineering of this kit; in our testing we are not seeing anything that would concern us about long term durability. also, we would not release a kit that had not been thoroughly tested; however, as with any kit, long term durability is always an unknown with a new product. even kits that have been on the market for some time now have shown certain issues with belts, rubbing, and pulleys. if long term durability is a major concern, the safest way would be to wait.

as a reference, you can look into the other KW kits (ie 06 and 12 civic Si kits) and see how the customer reviews have been; we believe the BRZ/FRS kit is more bullet proof than any of our previous kits.

once the kit is released and out in the market in numbers, we expect that the value and performance will be apparent, and would certainly justify the retail price tag that is currently set. if there are discounts to be offered in the future, it would more than likely be in the 100-200 dollar range rather than the 600 dollar range. but you never know.

since you are local, you should make a trip out to see us, or come check the car out at one of the local meets.

[ft_sjo]

@gmsii Please put up some detailed photos of the offering.

[digital_assassin]

These were posted earlier from their website

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

way better pics, from: http://cms.kraftwerksusa.com/id/950/...harger-System/

Maybe it's the JR kit your wanting to see more photos of since they've only posted 1 picture of the kit and a whole bunch of the outside of the car

[ft_sjo]

No, I know what i'm asking for. The photos above are not detailed. They don't show important things, like the crank pulley, belt routing, etc.

[digital_assassin]

Good call @ft_sjo. I'm curious about the pulley and belt routing too. Haven't seen that one yet.
@gmsii - can you get a picture with the throttle body intake tube off shooting down to expose belt routing?

[imom]

Originally Posted by gmsii

the pre-order discount is offered as incentive for people to be early adopters and take the plunge; i think the $600 savings is quite substantial.

we understand your concerns now, but once the kit comes out, those concerns will no longer be. we are confident in the design and engineering of this kit; in our testing we are not seeing anything that would concern us about long term durability. also, we would not release a kit that had not been thoroughly tested; however, as with any kit, long term durability is always an unknown with a new product. even kits that have been on the market for some time now have shown certain issues with belts, rubbing, and pulleys. if long term durability is a major concern, the safest way would be to wait.

as a reference, you can look into the other KW kits (ie 06 and 12 civic Si kits) and see how the customer reviews have been; we believe the BRZ/FRS kit is more bullet proof than any of our previous kits.

once the kit is released and out in the market in numbers, we expect that the value and performance will be apparent, and would certainly justify the retail price tag that is currently set. if there are discounts to be offered in the future, it would more than likely be in the 100-200 dollar range rather than the 600 dollar range. but you never know.

since you are local, you should make a trip out to see us, or come check the car out at one of the local meets.

gmsii, in one instance you mentioned the previous history of Oscar Jackson and the separation of KW and JR. To me then, it's really a newer company and this is your first product. I don't want to bring up the separation or start another discussion about that...it's already mentioned, but just saying is that Vortech as example has a very long history in the industry and now it's CARB approved. The pricing is comparable and the community who are interested are weighing our options.

To open up the pricing to same as Vortech, JR, and many others FI kits as a customer isn't a stand out feature. The separate belt is nice, but not sure how much it how big a deal it is... for some who are paranoid about it can carry spare belt and tools. Same argument can be made about spare tire, with BMW, they are useless...just carry tire kit for such and save weight.

Coming from a Z4M, it would be nice to have a little more pep in the 86 platform. Being in Cali, CARB is really important as I don't want to deal with the BS with regulation. KW FI kit looks very nice, just saying the fact it's new and no real reviews yet and proof (KW belief in the FI kit won't cut what's actual)... just saying that the equal to higher pricing to other more mature FI kits just counts as a negative to me.

So unless there are other features of the KW kit such as 10 to 20% more performance over the competition, it doesn't stand out as "THE" kit to buy. Just giving you some feedback... I know it's a new kit and not released yet, but I don't see this as a way for KW to win market share unless you can point something out big to justify the added price premium.

P.s. thank you for the invitation... perhaps I will one day, but need to find out if this is the right system for me.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by imom

gmsii, in one instance you mentioned the previous history of Oscar Jackson and the separation of KW and JR. To me then, it's really a newer company and this is your first product. I don't want to bring up the separation or start another discussion about that...it's already mentioned, but just saying is that Vortech as example has a very long history in the industry and now it's CARB approved. The pricing is comparable and the community who are interested are weighing our options.

To open up the pricing to same as Vortech, JR, and many others FI kits as a customer isn't a stand out feature. The separate belt is nice, but not sure how much it how big a deal it is... for some who are paranoid about it can carry spare belt and tools. Same argument can be made about spare tire, with BMW, they are useless...just carry tire kit for such and save weight.

Coming from a Z4M, it would be nice to have a little more pep in the 86 platform. Being in Cali, CARB is really important as I don't want to deal with the BS with regulation. KW FI kit looks very nice, just saying the fact it's new and no real reviews yet and proof (KW belief in the FI kit won't cut what's actual)... just saying that the equal to higher pricing to other more mature FI kits just counts as a negative to me.

So unless there are other features of the KW kit such as 10 to 20% more performance over the competition, it doesn't stand out as "THE" kit to buy. Just giving you some feedback... I know it's a new kit and not released yet, but I don't see this as a way for KW to win market share unless you can point something out big to justify the added price premium.

P.s. thank you for the invitation... perhaps I will one day, but need to find out if this is the right system for me.

The base price of the intercooled Innovate kit is $4200, the JR kit is $4000, the Vortech kit is $4000, the FA20 turbo kit is $4200 with a catted down pipe and a turbo that's worth buying, and the AVO turbo kit is $4400. All of these kits will be pretty close to the same peak output.

All of those prices are close enough that it's not going to be a factor in my purchase. If you're worried about a couple hundrend bucks on a purchase this big, I think you should save your money for something more important.

[Taber]

Originally Posted by imom

So unless there are other features of the KW kit such as 10 to 20% more performance over the competition, it doesn't stand out as "THE" kit to buy. Just giving you some feedback... I know it's a new kit and not released yet, but I don't see this as a way for KW to win market share unless you can point something out big to justify the added price premium.

P.s. thank you for the invitation... perhaps I will one day, but need to find out if this is the right system for me.

I was actually really stuck on going turbo until this kit popped up on my radar ... I like the idea of:

1)Future upgrade path with the ability to switch to the C38
2)Cogged belt
3)Ability to limp home if there is belt failure. I do not want to be changing belts on the side of the road, in the winter, in Maine.

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by digital_assassin

Good call @ft_sjo. I'm curious about the pulley and belt routing too. Haven't seen that one yet.
@gmsii - can you get a picture with the throttle body intake tube off shooting down to expose belt routing?

would a CAD assembly drawing suffice?

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by imom

gmsii, in one instance you mentioned the previous history of Oscar Jackson and the separation of KW and JR. To me then, it's really a newer company and this is your first product. I don't want to bring up the separation or start another discussion about that...it's already mentioned, but just saying is that Vortech as example has a very long history in the industry and now it's CARB approved. The pricing is comparable and the community who are interested are weighing our options.

To open up the pricing to same as Vortech, JR, and many others FI kits as a customer isn't a stand out feature. The separate belt is nice, but not sure how much it how big a deal it is... for some who are paranoid about it can carry spare belt and tools. Same argument can be made about spare tire, with BMW, they are useless...just carry tire kit for such and save weight.

Coming from a Z4M, it would be nice to have a little more pep in the 86 platform. Being in Cali, CARB is really important as I don't want to deal with the BS with regulation. KW FI kit looks very nice, just saying the fact it's new and no real reviews yet and proof (KW belief in the FI kit won't cut what's actual)... just saying that the equal to higher pricing to other more mature FI kits just counts as a negative to me.

So unless there are other features of the KW kit such as 10 to 20% more performance over the competition, it doesn't stand out as "THE" kit to buy. Just giving you some feedback... I know it's a new kit and not released yet, but I don't see this as a way for KW to win market share unless you can point something out big to justify the added price premium.

P.s. thank you for the invitation... perhaps I will one day, but need to find out if this is the right system for me.

imom-
KW is not a new company, the brand is almost 5 years old at this point...and the parent company Group-A Autosports has been around (continuously) since 1995 designing and engineering various automotive performance products. we have a full engineering staff of 10 and in-house testing facilities. we have also done development for automotive and motorcycle OEs. the fact of the matter is that developing 'supercharging' kits is quite simple for us given our engineering department experience, depth, and resources. not being an industry insider, you probably also wouldnt know that some of the other companies you mentioned have engineering staffs of 1 or have lost many good engineering people due to significant layoffs in recent years. i say this not to knock other companies (to remain nameless), but rather point out that confidence based on perception may be very different than reality.

anyways...at this point, i am really not clear what you are asking KW to do. we have offered a significant discount to entice people to be early adopters. after the first wave of kits is released, we believe people will recognize the value and performance we are bringing to the table; and the kit will stack up just fine against other kits. if we need to adjust the price in the future, we will. In the meantime, its already been adjusted, so there is nothing else for us to do.

i would recommend taking your time to evaluate the kits some more....within the next 3 months, pretty much everyones cards will be on the table for you to see. and since every ones pricing is pretty much in the same ball park, you can make your decision purely on value and peer reviews

[RUNAMUK]

Originally Posted by gmsii

imom-
KW is not a new company, the brand is almost 5 years old at this point...and the parent company Group-A Autosports has been around (continuously) since 1995 designing and engineering various automotive performance products. we have a full engineering staff of 10 and in-house testing facilities. we have also done development for automotive and motorcycle OEs. the fact of the matter is that developing 'supercharging' kits is quite simple for us given our engineering department experience, depth, and resources. not being an industry insider, you probably also wouldnt know that some of the other companies you mentioned have engineering staffs of 1 or have lost many good engineering people due to significant layoffs in recent years. i say this not to knock other companies (to remain nameless), but rather point out that confidence based on perception may be very different than reality.

anyways...at this point, i am really not clear what you are asking KW to do. we have offered a significant discount to entice people to be early adopters. after the first wave of kits is released, we believe people will recognize the value and performance we are bringing to the table; and the kit will stack up just fine against other kits. if we need to adjust the price in the future, we will. In the meantime, its already been adjusted, so there is nothing else for us to do.

i would recommend taking your time to evaluate the kits some more....within the next 3 months, pretty much everyones cards will be on the table for you to see. and since every ones pricing is pretty much in the same ball park, you can make your decision purely on value and peer reviews

gmsii,
You really shouldn't have to try to 'prove' your company's worth to anyone on this forum or any other forum. Like you said "within the next 3 months, pretty much everyones cards will be on the table for you to see. and since every ones pricing is pretty much in the same ball park, you can make your decision purely on value and peer reviews".
All will be revealed in due time. I see great potential for your kit(as do others) and maintain very high interest in making this my FI go to choice in the near future...

[digital_assassin]

Originally Posted by gmsii

would a CAD assembly drawing suffice?

I'd like to see it just to satisfy my curiosity. It's something I've been wondering about.

Originally Posted by Calum

The base price of the intercooled Innovate kit is $4200, the JR kit is $4000, the Vortech kit is $4000, the FA20 turbo kit is $4200 with a catted down pipe and a turbo that's worth buying, and the AVO turbo kit is $4400. All of these kits will be pretty close to the same peak output.

All of those prices are close enough that it's not going to be a factor in my purchase. If you're worried about a couple hundred bucks on a purchase this big, I think you should save your money for something more important.

Once the first 30 discount is gone on this kit it will be right in the middle of the others. Of the 2 kits that use Rotrex I think this is the only one that is clearly upgradable and where in time the small amount of money over the JR kit will be relevant. The bracket is very substantial and the layout has room for the larger blower. Also the cogged belt definitely won't slip when jumping up to the C38. I have serious doubts the layout of the JR kit will allow for the larger blower without needing new bracket, plumbing, and maybe a larger intercooler.