not starting, weird whine pressing ignition

[Passion86]

So, I'm having a weird starting issue. I just rebuilt the motor, and everything was going smoothly, until I went to press the start button. I was getting a "pop" from the starter, but it doesn't turn. Even weirder, I get this whine while it seems to be trying to get the starter motor going. I pulled the starter, and pressed the button, and the solenoid popped out, but didn't turn. I checked for codes with none showing, got a brand new battery, as I did need one, checked the fuses and relays, even took the transmission back off to check the CPS plate was aligned properly, then went ahead and got another starter, but the issues still persist. I haven't driven my car in over a year and a half... long story about a hit and run driver hitting me, leading to a blown engine, with denied warranty claims, long story short, it's taken me a while to rebuild the motor, and get back to this point. Any help would be extremely grateful!

Engine view:

Dash view:

[Icecreamtruk]

If you are sure your engine is in good shape and have a manual car, you could try pushing it to start it, that will allow you to discard a problem with the engine itself and you can focus on electrical connections to and from the starter, since it seems to try and send current thru it, yet it doesnt spin (that noise is not the spinning noise it makes when trying to start, either on car, or when not connected to the engine). Other than that, I have no suggestions.

[Passion86]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

If you are sure your engine is in good shape and have a manual car, you could try pushing it to start it, that will allow you to discard a problem with the engine itself and you can focus on electrical connections to and from the starter, since it seems to try and send current thru it, yet it doesnt spin (that noise is not the spinning noise it makes when trying to start, either on car, or when not connected to the engine). Other than that, I have no suggestions.

Yeah, I tried pull starting it before and it didn't start, but that was also when I had that bad battery, then again that would be a reason why you would push start your car. lol It might also take more than what I tried, as it's pretty much a new motor, but a good battery is very important on these car's I'm finding. I've got some pneumatic jacks, and I'm thinking about lifting the rear, wrapping the free end of one of this 3000lb ratchet straps used in the oilfield around one of the rear tires, and pulling it with a truck or dirt bike. Lol! I told my buddy that, and he said he's actually seen it successfully done. That makes me more inclined to try. So, what I have done so far is add another ground wire to the starter, (the one I just got) and it doesn't make that whine anymore when I press the ignition. I just get a few hard clicks from the solenoid on the starter, but still nothing. I've read about other post with very similar issues, but none of them ever came back with a solution to their problem. Here's an updated video of what it is doing now.

[humfrz]

Are you sure the engine will turn over (not frozen) ..?? manually turn it over with the crank pulley ..??

Are you sure the "other starter" you got is good ....... bench test it ...??


humfrz

[Tcoat]

Have you checked the new battery? Those clicks sound a lot like a low amp situation.

[Passion86]

I'm for sure the engine spins freely. As for the starter situation, I had the old one tested multiple times at different places, and it came out good, but I still decided on getting another one, after discussing my situation with many people. I haven't had the second starter tested, but I might as well go ahead and do so. Tcoat, after scouring the forums, and seeing the issues a low battery can cause, I have thought maybe the new battery doesn't have sufficient charge from trying multiple times now, as when I checked the battery when I was finished yesterday it was at 12.3V. I'll get some buddy's together to push the car out of the shop, so we can jump it from another car to see what that does. I'll try this again first, before I take the starter out to be tested. Thanks for the suggestions

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Passion86

I'm for sure the engine spins freely. As for the starter situation, I had the old one tested multiple times at different places, and it came out good, but I still decided on getting another one, after discussing my situation with many people. I haven't had the second starter tested, but I might as well go ahead and do so. Tcoat, after scouring the forums, and seeing the issues a low battery can cause, I have thought maybe the new battery doesn't have sufficient charge from trying multiple times now. I'll get some buddy's together to push the car out of the shop, so we can jump it from another car, and see what that does. I'll try this again first, before I take the starter out to be tested. Thanks for the suggestions

Check your connections for the terminals and at the starter for corrosion as well. It only takes a small drop in amperage to mess with a starter.

[Passion86]

Okay, so I was finally able get a friend to run out and do some tests with me. What I found was the starter making the click noise is because of low amperage, like you suggested Tcoat, but when I would hook it up to the truck the starter would make the whining noise like in the first video. I took the starter off, and plugged everything back up to see what it's doing, and the solenoid is pushing the gear out, but not spinning. This is the same with both starters I have, but I'm leaning towards getting a new starter, as the one I bought was off a wrecked FRS. I took some video below to show how the starter is sticking and not turning. Before I took the video, the stater did exactly what is shown in the video below, but also made the whining noise when it wouldn't turn. That's when I pulled the camera out to try and get it on video, but it wouldn't make the noise again, and I stopped when I noticed that battery cables to the starter started smoking. I took that harness apart, and found an exposed area on the negative cable to the starter, then further down on the cable the plastic around the cable had started to melt. I've got a new set of battery cables on the way, but I want to find out why it did what it did, so I don't melt the new cables, unless it was from the first exposed section of wire I found, where there is no evidence of the plastic melting? Tried uploading pics of the exposed cables, but I need to resize them to the appropriate size to upload them. So, anyone got any idea what may be going on?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Passion86

Okay, so I was finally able get a friend to run out and do some tests with me. What I found was the starter making the click noise is because of low amperage, like you suggested Tcoat, but when I would hook it up to the truck the starter would make the whining noise like in the first video. I took the starter off, and plugged everything back up to see what it's doing, and the solenoid is pushing the gear out, but not spinning. This is the same with both starters I have, but I'm leaning towards getting a new starter, as the one I bought was off a wrecked FRS. I took some video below to show how the starter is sticking and not turning. Before I took the video, the stater did exactly what is shown in the video below, but also made the whining noise when it wouldn't turn. That's when I pulled the camera out to try and get it on video, but it wouldn't make the noise again, and I stopped when I noticed that battery cables to the starter started smoking. I took that harness apart, and found an exposed area on the negative cable to the starter, then further down on the cable the plastic around the cable had started to melt. I've got a new set of battery cables on the way, but I want to find out why it did what it did, so I don't melt the new cables, unless it was from the first exposed section of wire I found, where there is no evidence of the plastic melting? Tried uploading pics of the exposed cables, but I need to resize them to the appropriate size to upload them. So, anyone got any idea what may be going on?

You are still not getting enough amps to the starter. If you had wires heat up then there is resistance someplace in the line. You may have pinched a wire someplace along the way and that would account for the low amps and the resistance.

[Passion86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You are still not getting enough amps to the starter. If you had wires heat up then there is resistance someplace in the line. You may have pinched a wire someplace along the way and that would account for the low amps and the resistance.

Well, could the exposed area in the middle of the negative cable I found be the cause of said resistance? I've got new OEM battery cables on the way.

[wbradley]

Fuses>relays>wiring/connectors.

Did you hook up a battery directly to the starter to test it?

Sadly, on short notice I learned all about fixing a starter. This due to $188 tow from my driveway to dealer 4 miles away and then charged just under $900 to replace starter since I had already checked fuses etc. Initially they quoted me $1300 and I told him to get the starter from Subaru which accounted for the $500 drop. In the future and when my DD is not blocked into the garage I will swap my own starter for less than $400. And the dealer had the nerve to charge me 3x hours labour (@$130/hr) for the job. I asked the service writer what the mechanic will do for the extra 2.5 hours to keep busy. LoL

[Passion86]

Okay, sorry it's taken me a bit to get to where I could get out to work on my car. I hooked strait up to the battery, bypassing the car, and the starter is doing the same exact same thing. When I engage the solenoid the voltage drops to 4.50V. I've got brand new OEM battery cables, went and bought some good little wire brushes, and found this plumbers tool in my shop that's perfect for cleaning inside the battery terminal ends, and it cleaned out the terminal ends till they were nice and shiny copper. I went and had both starters I have tested, for the third time, and I watched both of them spin good, again. I charged the new battery back up to 12.97V, as it was down at 12.22 when I got done experimenting the other day, but with all of that the result is the same; solenoid sticks and voltage drops from basically 13V down to 4.5V when I engage the solenoid. The only thing I haven't replaced are the terminal ends that connect from the battery to the cable. Lol I guess I can go to Subaru or Toyota and order some.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Passion86

Okay, sorry it's taken me a bit to get to where I could get out to work on my car. I hooked strait up to the battery, bypassing the car, and the starter is doing the same exact same thing. When I engage the solenoid the voltage drops to 4.50V. I've got brand new OEM battery cables, went and bought some good little wire brushes, and found this plumbers tool in my shop that's perfect for cleaning inside the battery terminal ends, and it cleaned out the terminal ends till they were nice and shiny copper. I went and had both starters I have tested, for the third time, and I watched both of them spin good, again. I charged the new battery back up to 12.97V, as it was down at 12.22 when I got done experimenting the other day, but with all of that the result is the same; solenoid sticks and voltage drops from basically 13V down to 4.5V when I engage the solenoid. The only thing I haven't replaced are the terminal ends that connect from the battery to the cable. Lol I guess I can go to Subaru or Toyota and order some.

Are you sure you have the cables hooked up properly? If the starter works on test but won't when hooked up directly it is the only think I can think of. Would also explain your smoking wires and voltage drop I suppose.

[Passion86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Are you sure you have the cables hooked up properly? If the starter works on test but won't when hooked up directly it is the only think I can think of. Would also explain your smoking wires and voltage drop I suppose.

I'm pretty sure they're hooked up correctly. I had the same thought, and tried to hook them up the other way around, but the cables won't really allow for it, so I never did hook it up the other way. I guess I can try though.