Is there a way compel Toyota/Subaru to reveal what they know about CEL/Idle issues?

[@Art_Mighty]

There are probably weekly (if not daily) engineering executive summaries being given to management. Many of us would like to know what's in those summaries so that we can make better informed decisions about whether or not we want to keep our cars.

I want to start a discussion about if it's possible to compel Toyota/Subaru to reveal what they know so far about these issues. The idea of "compensation" for us not having our cars is all well and good, but I want to understand whether or not I can trust this thing for another four or five years.

[Lawnik]

Your gas.

[zoomzoomers]

File a complaint with NHTSA.

[Hawaiian]

You can compel them, but you will need an old priest, and a young priest.

[Grishbok]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

You can compel them, but you will need an old priest, and a young priest.

LOL!

You could in theory petition them under freedom of information act, but youd be lost in legal strategy seeing as how its parent company is registered in japan and youd be getting into internation trade law. Not sure the average consumer would have the finances to pursue that route.

Also, what your asking is rediculous, because they are still compiling the data. Lots of data, which only becomes information when its categorized and processed. They are still in the data acquisition phase. So what you want, is their data, which is proprietary, and absolutely under no obligation to give out willy nilly as every rational person can understand that raw data can lead to misinformation. And misinforming your consumer base is a gigantic liability and major nono.

Good luck though, they are under absolutely no obligation whatsoever outside of the product warranty. Youd have to pursue the superbly expensive legal route.
[edit] reports to the NHTSA would only prompt an investigation into the complaint, and would not reveal any specific documentation regarding what was transferred between engineer and executive. All of that communication is proprietary and protected.

[2nd edit] you said you want to know if you can trust this thing for 4 or 5 years, well, yes and they spell out exactly what you can trust them to do in your warranty and for how long. If you purchased the extended warranty, absolutely put your trust in that. Thats contractual obligation right there!

[sho220]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

I want to start a discussion about if it's possible to compel Toyota/Subaru to reveal what they know so far about these issues.

Gonna be a short discussion as the answer is "no".

[Hawaiian]

The way I look at it is this. The first major repairs were all in the "data collection" phase. Every part in the assembly that could potentially lead to the cam errors was yanked and shipped back to japan so they could investigate it.

Every part was then inspected to make sure everything was within proper tolerance, and they started to diagnose the problem as more parts came in. It's taken a while for them to really home in on the root of the issue at hand, however, as you can see.. the remedy has shifted.

For the first 200 or so (us figures alone) the repair include a half dozen different parts from cams, ecu, and various valvetrain parts. It's now down to an ecu tweak. It could be some faulty code in the ecu that's the culprit. It's easy to F up one small obscure syntax error in thousands of lines of code due to a missed character.

[sho220]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

You can compel them, but you will need an old priest, and a young priest.

The power of Christ compels you!!!!!

[jesperswe]

There are probably Toyota people who know but if they would post anything about the issue that would be true, they would surely loose their job.

[jduffy]

How much money you got?

[TanMan]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

There are probably weekly (if not daily) engineering executive summaries being given to management. Many of us would like to know what's in those summaries so that we can make better informed decisions about whether or not we want to keep our cars.

I want to start a discussion about if it's possible to compel Toyota/Subaru to reveal what they know so far about these issues. The idea of "compensation" for us not having our cars is all well and good, but I want to understand whether or not I can trust this thing for another four or five years.

I think the best strategy is to:

1) As someone suggested, file a complaint with NHTSA

2) Forward the collective failure records of affected BRZs/FRs on this forum http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15577 (along with supporting cases from other forums or blogs...) to any of the car magazine/media and ask their help in making your grievances known either by publicizing or contacting an official manufacturer spokesperson to comment.

Somebody actually started a Facebook page on this engine issue, which is a good starting point but I think the most effective next step is to make sure these issues known to the media.

[White64Goat]

And that is probably why they pulled the TSB down for the problem if the problem has changed from a mechanical problem to a computer problem.

[wheelhaus]

So long as this problem can be resolved via dealer ECU flash, I'm fine and don't care to escalate it. If the dealer is properly equipped, it's an overnight stay at most. If the resolution still requires parts to be ordered (such as an ECU or cam gear) then it's irritating, but less so if the parts are soon more readily available in the US.

I understand the frustration from those who have been at the forefront of this "investigation" and truly appreciate their understanding and patience; it's far from easy. The rest of us can easily over-think it and get paranoid, and to me, that's even worse because it becomes self inflicted torture. So far, it appears to be a much more simple issue than our fears have been fed to believe.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

So long as this problem can be resolved via dealer ECU flash, I'm fine and don't care to escalate it. If the dealer is properly equipped, it's an overnight stay at most. If the resolution still requires parts to be ordered (such as an ECU or cam gear) then it's irritating, but less so if the parts are soon more readily available in the US.

I understand the frustration from those who have been at the forefront of this "investigation" and truly appreciate their understanding and patience; it's far from easy. The rest of us can easily over-think it and get paranoid, and to me, that's even worse because it becomes self inflicted torture. So far, it appears to be a much more simple issue than our fears have been fed to believe.

Is the ECU flash solving the problem, or simply covering it up? And if it does solve the issue for some, why doesn't it for others? Why is Toyota insisting on the on the Cam Gear Replacement in some cases? What is actually killing the Cam Gear? If it's just the ECU then they would be recalling all of the cars, or at the minimum putting out a TSB to get everyone's ECU changed to the correct versions?

There's too many outcomes for me to be as optimistic as you are. Still, the point you make about this becoming a self inflicted torture of sorts, there's a truth to that.

This reinforces for me something I forgot but already knew; companies only allow us to buy or use a product but we really have no legal right to understand what's inside. CompanyX won't tell you anything about the inner-workings of their products. The system works this way so that CompanyX can protect itself against it's competitors, at the same time it also protects CompanyX from us.