TMG GT86 CS-R3 Kit Car?

[PatSciFRS]

So, Toyota is bringing out a rally version of the car and have spec'ed out the engine to produce 240-250hp. It does not mention any forced induction anywhere. Does anyone know how they are getting more hp out of these boxers?

[8R6]

probably extensive work on cam profiles, pistons for possibly higher compression, fuel injectors, race fuel, maybe some porting of the head, no emissions equipment and a shit ton of ecu tuning......

[BlackMonarch]

This has been gone over before, I believe in the original post detailing the release of the rallye model. The engines built for rallye cars aren't designed to run 100k miles like the public versions are. They're designed to last 30-60 hours (Someone correct me on that, I'm just guessing that's seat time for a racing season) - to complete the season, and then get a complete rebuild.

So sure, they probably work the cam profile, and piston size, and etc etc, but it doesn't matter. We couldn't replicate the power numbers without making the engines incredibly unstable for long-term use. Now if you have a team of mechanics willing to tear your car down every three months to rebuild the motor, go for it.

TL;DR: Race engine = not built for long-term drivability, built for short-term go-fast and then it gets rebuilt. Unaffordable for average joe.

[Tcoat]

"Toyota" is not bringing out this car. It is a third party build.
From the site:

"The rear-wheel-drive GT86 CS-R3 is a rally car aimed at private competitors, offering reliability, safety and, most of all, fun.
The car conforms to FIA R3 regulations, meaning it is suitable for all rally events, from local competitions right up to the FIA World Rally Championship.
The CS-R3 will be offered for sale to private customers and TOYOTA dealerships, providing a cost-effective way to enjoy the thrills of competitive rallying, from local events up to and including the WRC.
It conforms to the FIA’s R3 regulation, which allows modification of its two-litre boxer engine. Changes to the software and hardware, such as cam lift and compression ratio, are part of an extensive development programme and the final car is projected to deliver 240-250hp.
Throughout the development process, TMG has focused on reducing weight whilst delivering safety, reliability and fun.
A sequential shift six-speed transmission and limited slip rear differential give a feeling of true high performance while an FIA-homologated safety cage has been designed and calculated, allowing weight optimisation.
TMG has also sourced tailor-made wiring looms and motorsport engine ECUs, while the car will feature market-leading tarmac and gravel suspension kits, including specifically-designed arms."


Site link here if you want to read more: http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/mot...ars/gt86-cs-r3

[PatSciFRS]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

"Toyota" is not bringing out this car. It is a third party build.
From the site:

"The rear-wheel-drive GT86 CS-R3 is a rally car aimed at private competitors, offering reliability, safety and, most of all, fun.
The car conforms to FIA R3 regulations, meaning it is suitable for all rally events, from local competitions right up to the FIA World Rally Championship.
The CS-R3 will be offered for sale to private customers and TOYOTA dealerships, providing a cost-effective way to enjoy the thrills of competitive rallying, from local events up to and including the WRC.
It conforms to the FIA’s R3 regulation, which allows modification of its two-litre boxer engine. Changes to the software and hardware, such as cam lift and compression ratio, are part of an extensive development programme and the final car is projected to deliver 240-250hp.
Throughout the development process, TMG has focused on reducing weight whilst delivering safety, reliability and fun.
A sequential shift six-speed transmission and limited slip rear differential give a feeling of true high performance while an FIA-homologated safety cage has been designed and calculated, allowing weight optimisation.
TMG has also sourced tailor-made wiring looms and motorsport engine ECUs, while the car will feature market-leading tarmac and gravel suspension kits, including specifically-designed arms."


Site link here if you want to read more: http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/mot...ars/gt86-cs-r3

I thought that TMG was still somehow affiliated with Toyota, actually owned by Toyota. They produce another version of the GT86, "TMG GT86 CS-V3" which has pretty much the same engine specs of our cars. However, the "TMG GT86 CS-R3" has significantly improved engine specs". That's all I was trying to bring attention to. I believe that BRGT86 has provided the answers. Thanks.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by PatSciFRS

I thought that TMG was still somehow affiliated with Toyota, actually owned by Toyota. They produce another version of the GT86, "TMG GT86 CS-V3" which has pretty much the same engine specs of our cars. However, the "TMG GT86 CS-R3" has significantly improved engine specs". That's all I was trying to bring attention to. I believe that BRGT86 has provided the answers. Thanks.

Sorry didn't mean to offend!
Yes they are a subsidiary of Toyota but not "Toyota" per se. Sort of like the old Shelby cars (not the 'Stang versions) were not really made by "Ford". I know it sounds like l am splitting hairs but half the people here will soon be expecting to see these cars rolling off the assembly line next to the stock versions. That is not the case at all as they are pretty much custom built from a few basic 86 components and loads of non standard parts.
Cars like these (although certainly cool) always bring out the "why can't we have that engine/tranny/body kit for the cost of a stock one" crowd and no matter how many people explain the economics behind them most still just say "ya but I want it".

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by PatSciFRS

I thought that TMG was still somehow affiliated with Toyota, actually owned by Toyota. They produce another version of the GT86, "TMG GT86 CS-V3" which has pretty much the same engine specs of our cars. However, the "TMG GT86 CS-R3" has significantly improved engine specs". That's all I was trying to bring attention to. I believe that BRGT86 has provided the answers. Thanks.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motorsport_GmbH"]Toyota Motorsport GmbH - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

As for the engine, it's already been convered... nothing drastic done to the engine, but the more aggressive cam profile + the high comp pistons will ensure a shorter lifespan of the engine under normal driving conditions.

Don't forget the 100+ octane race gas you'd need!

TL;DR -- just get yourself some I/H/E and basic ECUTek tune for more power.

-alex

[Tromatic]

Or the OFT and run E85 for cheap thrills.

[campy]

A supercharger would be cheaper and more reliable than a built engine.

[Vincenttam]

I mean people are saying that they're getting an extra 30hp from a e85 change. I don't doubt you can get an extra 50hp from a na fa20. However your engine longevity and mpg isn't going to be much "toyota" anymore lol.

[Reaper]

Engine is built for spec class race fuel. Also ported/flowed de shrouded heads. I'm sure it has a cam profile the sacrifices low rpm power and drive ability to make more peak up top.

[srt4evah]

If I'm not mistaken, are people not already getting 240-250hp with simple intake and full exhaust (including header) and a tune, on 93 octane, here on the forums?

[Rampage]

More like 225-230 crank HP. I have seen a few getting just over 200 RWHP with simple bolt ons and 93 octane tune over the last couple of years.