follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
RR Racing
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > 1st Gens: Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ > Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum

Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum The place to start for the Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 | GT86

User Tag List

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-01-2014, 01:47 PM   #1
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: FRS
Location: Canada
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 129 Times in 1 Post
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
FRS/BRZ/GT86 Aerodynamics Video!

Ever wonder what the flow around the Toyota 86 looks like? How about the Toyota Supra? Mazda RX7? or the Toyota MR2?

I've done some tests and compiled everything in an easy-to-follow video located below. Enjoy!

graysgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 129 Users Say Thank You to graysgarage For This Useful Post:
2013GTRNate (02-14-2015), 2much (04-09-2015), 504 (10-01-2014), @Art_Mighty (10-07-2014), abraxis (10-07-2014), Acree (10-20-2014), acro (10-12-2014), akuhei (10-07-2014), almedarj (10-18-2014), aquaman (02-25-2016), AtlasMick (10-08-2014), Atticus808 (10-18-2014), austin_ellas (03-29-2016), AznKirby (10-07-2014), bboybillaberFRS (10-27-2014), BentAnat (10-13-2014), bhbnuckle (10-08-2014), Black Tire (02-11-2015), Bristecom (10-02-2014), br_z1Lch (03-08-2015), cactus (10-07-2014), calmtigers (10-07-2014), CarzCarzCarz (10-03-2014), chaoskaze (10-30-2014), chas3wba0 (02-03-2015), chris x sway (03-03-2015), cortrain (10-07-2014), DAEMANO (10-16-2014), Dake (10-02-2014), DarkSunrise (10-02-2014), ddeflyer (10-14-2014), Default (10-07-2014), DocWalt (10-07-2014), D_Thissen (10-01-2014), El Guapo (10-08-2014), ElijahF (12-01-2019), evolution_sfv (06-17-2015), fika84 (10-02-2014), FirestormFRS (10-07-2014), Fly Guy (12-14-2014), Frost (11-02-2014), FRSRAVEN (10-16-2014), frsvr4 (10-17-2014), fstlane (10-07-2014), fx35s (10-22-2014), Ghost of Akina (10-02-2014), GT86_PRAGUE (12-06-2014), Guillaume (10-28-2014), hmong337 (10-12-2014), Hyper4mance2k (10-11-2014), IloveBaldEagles (10-11-2015), jazztennor (04-09-2015), Jimmy45brz (10-12-2014), Jrryjms07 (10-02-2014), juliog (10-08-2014), kanundrum (10-09-2014), karlsson (10-13-2014), kayoh (10-13-2014), kiichiro (12-22-2014), kodyo (10-30-2014), Kotu100 (10-16-2014), KPR10 (10-07-2014), Liebot (10-07-2014), LucidMomentum (10-01-2014), LXXXV1 (10-08-2014), M&M_Hwy9 (10-08-2014), Maverickgear (10-14-2014), meeks (05-12-2015), MemphisR (10-08-2014), meWant (10-02-2014), Mim (11-07-2014), mjh712 (10-09-2014), MJones_RB (05-20-2015), mokinbird87 (10-07-2014), MrAmalto (10-14-2014), MrVito (10-09-2016), nightmare (05-29-2015), ninedice (10-02-2014), NissanGuy (10-14-2014), normancw (11-02-2014), N_A (10-30-2014), PabloN (10-02-2014), Pacific (10-22-2014), Pat (10-08-2014), phrosty (10-28-2014), Pitman (10-11-2014), Pizzman (10-08-2014), puma (05-20-2015), qbzee007 (11-13-2014), qqqqball (01-31-2015), RAYSSPL (10-19-2014), Readytoxplod (10-03-2014), rhythmM (10-18-2014), rice_classic (10-08-2014), rixter145 (02-03-2015), Rosticles (10-07-2014), rusty959 (10-11-2014), s0sl0w (10-26-2014), s2d4 (10-02-2014), Sarlacc (01-23-2015), ScionFR-J (10-06-2014), ShaunWRX (10-09-2014), Shim (10-11-2014), shiumai (10-01-2014), Skurge (10-08-2014), snidd111 (10-09-2014), sprintertrueno86 (10-01-2014), stevesnj (10-01-2014), stockysnail (10-29-2014), stoked_on_spool (12-22-2014), Stumpygt86 (10-10-2014), Tgionet (10-16-2014), The Slow One (10-24-2014), Totality (10-02-2014), Toyota GT 86 (10-07-2014), troek (10-17-2014), Turdinator (10-09-2014), Tye300 (10-02-2014), tyrantcf (10-08-2014), ultra (11-30-2014), Vino (10-01-2014), wbradley (05-09-2018), wheelhaus (10-08-2014), Wheelsoffracing (10-11-2014), WillRacer1jz (10-10-2014), Wise (10-08-2014), WRB5titch (10-25-2014), Yoniyama (10-08-2014), Yrr (10-08-2014)
Old 10-01-2014, 10:18 PM   #2
Senior Member
stevesnj's Avatar
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2016 FR-S Oceanic Blue
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 2,958
Thanks: 2,158
Thanked 1,600 Times in 922 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Fantastic. I had a theory the OEM wing was just for show, I may get a 5 AXIS it seems to have a higher degree angle than the OEM so it should create a little more downforce since the air wont pass between the deck and spoiler thus pushing the rear down more. I wish he would increase the up angle 5 deg with a solid spoiler to see what happens but he didn't... darn, it's the first episode anyway. But with a higher degree solid spoiler conjunction with the under body flat panels it should will produce even more downforce. Very great video. Technical but very good idea. The nose that breaks the airflow y axis to x is needed for intake and cooling. F1 cars use rear side mounted radiator pods. And only some consumer sports and Supercars, MR and RR cars only get these.
stevesnj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 11:41 AM   #3
Senior Member
PabloN's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S, M/T argento
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 133
Thanks: 109
Thanked 71 Times in 45 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Terrific stuff! Look forward to future videos. It's been many many years since I was even remotely involved with fluid mechanics, but I couldn't resist trying some numbers. At the flow velocities shown (0.275 and 0.668 m/s) and using 1.27/24 = 0.05 m for the height of the FR-S model, I get Reynolds numbers of the model in water of about 15,000 and 35,000. The same calculation for a real FR-S with 1.27 m height at 60 mph in air gives a Reynolds number of about 2,000,000 which is about 100x the water channel value, if I did this right (always a big question). Do you expect the flow characteristics (e.g., separation) to change much over this range?

Last edited by PabloN; 10-02-2014 at 01:37 PM.
PabloN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 01:09 PM   #4
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: Houston
Posts: 879
Thanks: 331
Thanked 651 Times in 331 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Neat video. For those of us without the background, the only thing I might add would be a quick summation of whether your experiments supported or contradicted the manufacturer figures (because maths). A simple, "Toyota said this; we got this. This is within/outside normal error." It's interesting to see the 86 seems to get slipperier at the higher speed - if I'm watching the video right. This seems to support my personal experience that I get excellent (and potentially better) mileage up to the mid-seventies.

I'm also curious, once the spoiler is added to the 86, the lower bubble gets bigger but the upper one seems smaller (compared to some of the other vehicles where the bubbles changed size in general but still seemed to stay relatively symmetrical). Does this mean anything?

I seem to recall reading the fully-aerod 86 is within .01 of the Prius so while building a Prius model might not be as exciting, I'd be curious to see if that was true. I had an '87 Celica and I also remember reading it had an impressively low CoD for its vintage - I do know I could get 40 mpg on the highway and regularly maintained 35-36 mpg avg. It'd probably also be interesting to throw a Tesla Model S into the mix. If it comes down to only one one-hundredth of a difference in drag to have something that looks like the 86 or Tesla over something that looks like the Prius, I think the case is clear.

From a model-building perspective, and not to criticize, but the paint jobs seem very rough; I'm curious whether that would effect the boundary layer separation in these tests. I would think a properly prepared surface and glossy black would better represent the actual paint job.

Lastly, I might suggest the production could be tightened up a bit. I suppose this is being presented in a manner required for scientific rigor, but after the first test for example, I didn't need to be reminded how the bubbles worked, which direction they were coming from, when you switched from constant to pulse, etc.

I still really enjoyed it though. Thanks for taking the time to make this and I look forward to the next segment!
Dake is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dake For This Useful Post:
JohnJuan (10-02-2014)
Old 10-07-2014, 04:49 PM   #5
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: 1992 Nissan Skyline GTS-t Type-M
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 270
Thanks: 85
Thanked 65 Times in 42 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
FyeaFRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 12:57 AM   #6
Site Moderator
ichitaka05's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: ichi 86 Project
Location: Middle of No where
Posts: 19,916
Thanks: 6,712
Thanked 17,159 Times in 7,596 Posts
Mentioned: 632 Post(s)
Tagged: 27 Thread(s)
Great info for sure... just only thing that kinda un-happy about was, not giving the credit in the 43:15. Which he got the pic from this forum but in the end, he didn't credit.

Yeah, I know, it's small thing, but at least he could of done was give a credit to the guy translated that brochure for all of us... unless he's AKI then, you're damn awesome guy!
ichitaka05 is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ichitaka05 For This Useful Post:
Pizzman (10-08-2014), Tcoat (10-30-2014)
Old 10-08-2014, 01:15 AM   #7
Crap another obsession.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Drives: 2013 BRZ Limited
Location: In the IE under the C
Posts: 213
Thanks: 95
Thanked 161 Times in 80 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thumbs up

Well that's a hell of a first post! Couldn't you have led off with something a bit more mundane. I mean electrolysis, fluid dynamics, blah, blah, blah, frs model with a horrible paint job, blah, blah, science! I jest.

I am very curious to see where this series goes. I appreciate the time it took to build such a huge tank just to dunk a model in.

How do you space out the bubbles from the wire? insulation? do they form into lines naturally?
Can you move the wire from side to side to view the entire width of the car in profile at different points, such as the rear view mirrors.
Can you turn the car on its side to see top down how the bubbles move around the car?

Kudos and please continue with this series. There are practical and tangible applications of what you are showing, to so much on this forum. turbos, exhausts, rear tail lights, crickets, giant 3 ton downforce adjustable wings, shit that probably will never and should never work.
A lot.

ps I watched almost all of it.
Pizzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 05:30 AM   #8
Yrr's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 40
Thanks: 64
Thanked 23 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks for making this great video!

Aerodynamics are not my cup of tea, but you made it very understandable and informative!

I'm looking forward to watch your next episode!

But maybe you should change the background, I don't like the unaligned gray-blueish stone wall.
It's probably just my, but I felt my OCD kicked in hard every time i looked at it. :-P
Yrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 11:49 PM   #9
MemphisR's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 1989 MR2 S/C, 2014 Scion FR-S
Location: Langley, B.C.
Posts: 559
Thanks: 270
Thanked 98 Times in 78 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I totally have an '89 MR2 S/C in the two-tone grey/silver as well!! They are pretty hard to find these days, good to see another MK1 fan. I had to take her off the road and get a more reliable car as she is starting to show her age. But I did get an FR-S as a daily . Tell me what you think.

Additionally I think that you should try the MK1 with the Plumbley mod, which moves the rear spoiler back a bit. Also consider a '67 stingray. I am curious if it has an exceptionally good or bad design for the 60's and now.
Attached Images
"It's ok... It's not structural."- Mikey
MemphisR is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MemphisR For This Useful Post:
2013GTRNate (02-14-2015)
Old 10-11-2014, 08:50 PM   #10
Captain Snooze
Because compromise
Captain Snooze's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Red Herring
Location: australia
Posts: 6,747
Thanks: 3,306
Thanked 7,412 Times in 3,380 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thank you for a fantastic video.
Question about the flow tank. How much influence does having the tank horizontal have on slow speed analysis? That is, I would have thought having the tank vertical would have negated any tendency for the bubble to float to the the top. In stationary water how long does it take for the bubbles to rise to the top?
My car is completely stock except for all the mods.

Captain Snooze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2014, 01:48 AM   #11
Emperor JDM
hmong337's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: '91 MR2 Gen3 3SGTE, '13 FRS
Location: Onterrible, Canada
Posts: 1,748
Thanks: 3,498
Thanked 909 Times in 495 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
This is epic! Best video I've seen in a LONG time! THANK YOU. This was an awesome video on fluid/air-flow dynamics. I hope Toyota is paying you for making a kick ass video ahaha.

Toyota fanboy here too. Here is my scrap.

Props to another Canadian! Waterloo here. Can't thank you enough for such an awesome video.

hmong337 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 08:16 PM   #12
Grip Ronin
The Mechanic
Grip Ronin's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: Civic Turbo,FR-S
Location: NJ
Posts: 928
Thanks: 130
Thanked 171 Times in 119 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
well done. id love to see more on wheel arches and diffusers
Progress Thread Ported billet 20G
Grip Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 09:34 PM   #13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Drives: many
Location: here
Posts: 487
Thanks: 190
Thanked 279 Times in 152 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Kind of curious how some of those windshield wiper spoilers would look at that separation area.

Would also to be nice to see how vortex generators at the top of the rear glass look in front of those tall wings.
abraxis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 11:57 AM   #14
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S White out
Location: Valinda
Posts: 97
Thanks: 46
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I really enjoyed the video and having owned an mk1 Mr2 and my current car being an fr-s I was very interested. If I could make a suggestion for another topic I'd like to see you try the other spoiler types that are available for the frs so that we could see which spoiler would actually benefit our cars.
Perrin drop in filter Genome Tuning Aluminum resonator delete Borla UEL header motiv concepts over pipe megan racing resonated front pipe invidia q300 cat back and more to come
almedarj is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aerodynamics discussion ayau Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 320 12-06-2017 12:48 PM
Aftermarket exhaust and aerodynamics Lonergt Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 5 07-13-2013 04:50 PM
Front aerodynamics... need help! TuxedoCartman Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 16 10-23-2012 09:27 PM
Video: FR-S / BRZ Aerodynamics and D-4S Fuel Injection Explained Moshpit37 FR-S & 86 Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum 19 06-26-2012 09:19 PM
Video: FR-S / BRZ Aerodynamics and D-4S Fuel Injection Explained Moshpit37 BRZ Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum 1 06-21-2012 12:47 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.