A couple questions

[Audi5459]

Hi All,

I've been looking into getting an affordable sports car. I've test driven a few, researched as much as I could online, and I keep coming back to the FR-S/BRZ. I like your forums and thought I might ask a few questions. Here goes.

(1) I live in Nebraska. Right now I'm driving just a plain 2008 Mazda3 (as bare as bare can get) and I do okay in the snow/ice, which is pretty regular through the winter here. I always hear that RWD sports car do terribly in the winter and I was wondering how the FR-S/BRZ did during the winter. I know it's quite a bit lower to the ground; would it be much worse than my Mazda3? And would it be a relatively simple fix to just get all-weather/winter tires and change them out?

(2) Everything I see and read about these cars says they are a "driver's" car and really fun to drive, although they don't have the quickest acceleration. Each of the review videos I've seen (like here and on Top Gear) shows the drivers sliding the backend/fishtailing/drifting. I don't know how to do that and it looks like that is an important part of having fun in the car. Is that something where I can just go to an abandoned lot or a backcountry road and teach myself? How much trouble can I get in if i'm only going 30-35 mph while testing it out?

(3) I am not a mechanic and know next to nothing about cars. The most I can say is that ever since going with a manual I will never switch back to an automatic. With my limited knowledge in mind, how hard would it be to do some after-market modding myself (say something like putting on my own brakes, tires, or exhaust)? And when looking at the scion website, they offer TRD exhaust and air intake . . . should I just have the dealer do those?

Thanks in advance and I appreciate any insight you can give me!

Austin

[finch1750]

I will just answer number 2. The worst trouble you can get it is wrapping the car around something or putting it in a ditch. It is not something that you learn on your own on the street in a brand new car. Autox is a good place to get a feel for the tail coming out safely and for cheap. In terms of tickets they could prob cite you for reckless driving and maybe more. That is not a cheap ticket.

You dont need to have to back out to have fun. Enjoy the car and leave all the nannies on on public roads. You'll have a good time

[1Cor10:23]

Hey Austin - welcome to the forum!

(1) I live in Ontario where we get quite a bit of snow. It hasn't been an issue for me with winter tires (get good ones - blizzaks or x-ice) but I'm also not dependent on my vehicle for work. If there's a heavy snowfall i tend to just avoid taking the car out.

(2) You don't need to be sliding around to be having fun but it definitely doesn't hurt that it can do these things. Remember that it's taxing on the tires and possibly your alignment.

(3) I would skip TRD parts from dealer. The money can go much farther in the aftermarket, particularly the TRD exhaust.

[FlamingRectumSyndrome]

Regarding #1: Road and Track did a short article on how much fun the BRZ was to drive in the snow. With the traction control engaged and a good set of Michelin snow tires, they questioned why anyone would need FWD or AWD. Then again, they said the most fun was to switch off the TC and hoon in an empty parking lot, spraying long rooster tails of snow and sand.

As far as it being a driver's car, that it certainly is. I've been driving a modified (lowered, upgraded suspension, light wheels, ultra-sticky tires) Miata for the last 5 years. It's a blast to embarrass guys in muscle cars on twisty back roads, and a hoot to autocross. It'll take corners at stupid speeds, and rewards (and even encourages) uh, enthusiastic driving. Test driving an FR-S convinced me that the same sort of fun is a part of this car's nature. Take one for a spin. If it doesn't put a smile on your face, you're either boring or dead.

[A3r0pusH]

1- I don't drive in the snow so can't answer that.

2- I drive my car without the back end being thrown around all over the place and it is still a blast to drive.

3- If you've never done work like replacing rotors, brake pads, brake fluid or things like that, set aside a weekend to do it. Try and make sure you have ALL the tools you'll need and at least 1 person that you're able to call for general help/guidance. I'm a novice when it comes to working on cars and this was part of my experience.

The first time I replaced brake pads, rotors, SS lines and brake fluid in my M3 it took me about 4 days. I had just recovered from some surgery and wanted to try this one my own. Didn't have the correct jack, wrong brake bleeder, stripped a screw that I thought was essential but ended up being unimportant, being careful not to break anything (I'm like the Hulk and break clips and screws on cars like nothing). I was really unprepared both physically and in the random tool department.

With that said, if I had to do it again now, it would be done in a matter of hours. Just take your time, have the tools and be ready for a great amount of self satisfaction once its all done.

[J_kennington]

Originally Posted by Audi5459

Hi All,

I've been looking into getting an affordable sports car. I've test driven a few, researched as much as I could online, and I keep coming back to the FR-S/BRZ. I like your forums and thought I might ask a few questions. Here goes.

(1) I live in Nebraska. Right now I'm driving just a plain 2008 Mazda3 (as bare as bare can get) and I do okay in the snow/ice, which is pretty regular through the winter here. I always hear that RWD sports car do terribly in the winter and I was wondering how the FR-S/BRZ did during the winter. I know it's quite a bit lower to the ground; would it be much worse than my Mazda3? And would it be a relatively simple fix to just get all-weather/winter tires and change them out?

(2) Everything I see and read about these cars says they are a "driver's" car and really fun to drive, although they don't have the quickest acceleration. Each of the review videos I've seen (like here and on Top Gear) shows the drivers sliding the backend/fishtailing/drifting. I don't know how to do that and it looks like that is an important part of having fun in the car. Is that something where I can just go to an abandoned lot or a backcountry road and teach myself? How much trouble can I get in if i'm only going 30-35 mph while testing it out?

(3) I am not a mechanic and know next to nothing about cars. The most I can say is that ever since going with a manual I will never switch back to an automatic. With my limited knowledge in mind, how hard would it be to do some after-market modding myself (say something like putting on my own brakes, tires, or exhaust)? And when looking at the scion website, they offer TRD exhaust and air intake . . . should I just have the dealer do those?

Thanks in advance and I appreciate any insight you can give me!

Austin

#1) not able to answer as we don't get much snow in Georgia
#2) you don't HAVE to slide the back end. Is it fun to do it? Absolutely. Is the car still a blast to drive without destroying your tires? Without a doubt. Safest place to learn, at a track. You CAN go to a parking lot, you run the risk of hitting something, getting a reckless driving ticket, if it's a private owned lot could also get you for destruction of private property. Learn in a safe controlled environment.
#3) you won't be able to physically mount tires to rims yourself, you can easily do an intake with nothing more than a couple basic hand tools. An exhaust will require you getting under the car(jacking the car up) so if you do not own a jack and stands or ramps, count that out as well. If you plan on moding, buy a set of tools, jack, and jack stands and learn. You CANT learn if you never try, and you can never try without tools.

[DarkSunrise]

My experience with the FR-S on stock all-season tires is that you'll have trouble in > 2" snow, especially if there are hills. By comparison, my FWD GTI on all-season tires had no issues and was much better. So if you travel through moderate snow, consider snow tires a must.

I wouldn't say drifting is a necessary part of having fun in this car, but feeling the rear end coming around in corners at the track or autocross is a great feeling. You can see Chris Harris mention that specific point (with a giggle) in his review of the car. Definitely save that kind of fun for an autocross or trackday though.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4"]Toyota GT86 / Scion FR-S v Nissan 370Z v Used Porsche Cayman S - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]

The basic aftermarket mods can be done yourself. You may have to buy a few tools, but it's definitely rewarding doing it yourself. I would recommend doing some research on this site and finding mods you like, then trying to install them yourself.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Audi5459

Hi All,

I've been looking into getting an affordable sports car. I've test driven a few, researched as much as I could online, and I keep coming back to the FR-S/BRZ. I like your forums and thought I might ask a few questions. Here goes.

(1) I live in Nebraska. Right now I'm driving just a plain 2008 Mazda3 (as bare as bare can get) and I do okay in the snow/ice, which is pretty regular through the winter here. I always hear that RWD sports car do


(2) Everything I see and read about these cars says they are a "driver's" car and really fun to drive, although they don't have the quickest

(3) I am not a mechanic and know next to nothing about cars. The most I can say is that ever since going with a manual I will never switch back to an automatic. With my limited knowledge in mind, how hard would it be to

Thanks in advance and I appreciate any insight you can give me!

Austin

1. You need quality set of winter tires, leave traction control on. Its different than FWD, however if the tires are good so is traction.

2. The Mazda 3 is one of the better FWD cars but the FRS/BRZ has some of the best driving dynamics of any car below 40k. Feels great to drive. However It's not much faster than the 2.5L Mazda 3 motor. Although it will feel slightly faster. You don't need to slide it to have fun. Although yes if you crank the wheel hard at slow speed and floor it in first or second you can move the tail around, pretty typical of RWD nothing different here.

3. You will probably like the car stock no mods. The car stock has a tube that transfers intake noise into the cabin. I think it sounds good and you will notice it right away. The manual trans in this car if you get a good one, is one of the better ones on the market despite the fear mongering. If you are in a cold climate switch manual trans fluid and its super smooth year around, no drama.

[fubarian]

Skip the TRD exhaust and CAI. The CAI especially is worthless for power.

As far as getting sideways, it took me several months of driving this car to get used to it. Never had a car that needed to be shifted ~7400 RPM for max performance, as I came from a long line of V8 Mustangs. Now that I know how to drive it, its insanely fun and my car is currently stock.

[strat61caster]

Without looking at the other responses here's my reaction:

1. No snow, don't know. I'm surprised you don't already use snow tires on the Mazda, from what I hear a car with proper winter tires will beat out a car on all seasons for safety and driver control regardless of FWD, AWD, or RWD. There are people here who drive their cars (and other RWD vehicles) in the winter that can chime in.

2. You don't have to slide around to have fun. Ever taken your Mazda through a twisty road? Again from what I hear that should be good fun in that car even though it's a base model economy car. Now put that in a car that has a telepathic connection to you and does exactly what you tell it to, grinning ear to ear without breaking traction or the law (at least in my experience). Take it to an autocross or track day and you'll probably have buckets of fun with a good instructor.

3. For the mods you listed this is a great car to learn how to do it yourself (except for mounting tires on wheels, that requires equipment, pay someone to do that). As a coworker of mine said "Everything is just nuts and bolts". It may be cheaper to learn on an older simpler beater car but that can be a huge headache, this isn't a bad place to start. Personally I skipped all dealer add-ons, they usually get a tidy profit off of overcharging for labor.

Edit: Keep the car stock for awhile, figure out what you want from it, i.e. exhaust note is disappointing, experiencing brake fade, on the track this thing is more capable stock than 95% of the drivers out there.

Edit 2: You should be able to pick up a set of steel wheels on the cheap for snow tires, this also keeps the oem wheels from getting grimy with snow junk.

[Cycotech]

1. Here is a video on youtube (not my video). A bunch of people posted videos of the brz or fr-s in the snow. I can't really say anything because where I'm at but if I go back to Colorado in the winter time to visit family then I could say something.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN4E7nqY-58"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN4E7nqY-58[/ame]

2. It's fun to do it if you want to risk hitting something or cops pulled you over for reckless driving. I would prefer to drive on twisting roads/good corners to test out the handling.

3. If you have friends who know more about cars and they could help you out with replacing parts or modding. Also ask other owner's around your area and some of them would glad to help you on your car. TRD is nice but the aftermarket parts are better and worth the money in my opinion.

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by FlamingRectumSyndrome

It'll take corners at stupid speeds....

There's an old, very curvy road near where I live. A new, straight, nicer road replaced it. Which means that there's little traffic on the old road and rarely any police cruisers.

The other night I was driving on that road and there were a couple corners where the recommended speed was 20mph. I was able to do 50mph without even sliding... and I'm still on the stock tires.

[bcj]

Drifting the rear around is much like burnouts. It's showy, but only wears out the tires faster.
That's not the only reason they built these cars.

I like the way it can stick to the road around corners as well as much more expensive cars.

It is nicer to work on a newer car as opposed to an older one with rust welded nuts and fixtures.
If you haven't before, get a torque wrench to put it back together right rather than guessing.
Broken or stripped fasteners can be very unsatisfying.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Audi5459

Each of the review videos I've seen (like here and on Top Gear) shows the drivers sliding the backend/fishtailing/drifting. I don't know how to do that and it looks like that is an important part of having fun in the car.

It's not.

You see that on television because it looks more exciting to the camera. Drifting reminds me of teenagers who buy nunchuks from the cheesy knife store in the mall and flail around with them and hit themselves in the head a few times. A straight punch to the nose would be more effective in a fight, but the kids think they need to be flashy.