FR-S vs 2013 Golf R

[Weasel Soup]

The Golf R is what I traded in for my FR-S. I searched and didn't see a thread comparing the Mk 6, only the forthcoming Mk 7, so I decided to make this before the info/experience leaves my memory.

There are some serious differences, some everybody knows, some that are pretty obscure. I'll get the obvious out of the way first. The Golf R is an AWD, 2.0L direct injected turbo. It was only offered with a manual transmission and used a fourth generation Haldex AWD system, all the differentials were open from the factory but the rear was computer controlled. That system enabled a variable torque split front to rear. Being a VW it had the requisite German interior. Only about 7,500 of them were brought to the US from 2012 - 2013.

My car was a four door with the push button start/sunroof/navigation/leather seats and upgraded audio system package. That was the higer of the two packages available and thus carried a sticker of about $37,500. That covers the car itself, now onto my experience with it.

On the way from the dealer in central Colorado to Wyoming the sun went down and I got my first usage of the HID lights. AMAZING! It was snowing by the time I finished the four hours drive from the dealer the day I brought it home, 12/26/12. I took my girlfriend to a movie and when we got out there was a nice dusting of snow on the roads. I was the car's second owner so it already had about 1,400 miles on it and I turned the traction control off to play on the way home.

The rear of the car stepped as soon as I asked it to turning a corner from a stop. Then when I added throttle to maintain the slide the stability control system cut in and straightened the car out. I'd done research on the VW forums and knew the car would do that, but it was so immediate I didn't even try it again that night. There was no point.

I'm heavilly into SCCA RallyCross, enough that I coned myself out of a National Championship in the PF class in 2012. So naturally the Golf R got a healthy taste of dirt while in my charge. I race mostly with the Colorado RallyCross group and they use one site that is very hard packed with a cover layer of gravel. That was the first place I took the R to compete.

Stock class on the stock all season tires I destroyed my class, winning by almost 30 seconds, and beating all the Prepared class AWD cars and all but two of the Modified class AWD cars. However the car was fighting me the whole time. ABS intervention, skid mittigation, no LFB, the works. So I visited a friend who runs a performance shop and asked him to use the VAG-COM tool to enable the two stage ESC defeat found in the ECU programming of the Canadian market cars.

The next RX event was at the same site as the R's first event so I decided to use that as the testing grounds of the newly re-coded traction control system. I won again and the car fought me less, but it still didn't obey my every command. Left foot braking was allowed, but only in short increments. After about two seconds of using both pedals the car determined I was about to crash and cut the gas.

I also took the R to the National Championship in 2013 and did very well in the Friday practice. Then it rained overnight and turned the surface to thick, sticky mud. The 4th gen Haldex system in the R can't put any more than 50% of the power to the rear wheels, and seems to reduce that when there is a constant wheels spin. I did very poorly Saturday and was unable to make up the time on Sunday.

I traded in the R for the FR-S on 4/8/14, three days after taking yet another RX class win at the site it loved so much. I won each of the four events I took the car to at that site, and finished second and third at two events at another site. So besides Nationals and the one ice race I did where I got destroyed by the class winner in the second round of knock out competiton, a purpose modified Scout, the R did very well in loose surface competition. It should have also done well at Auto-X but I never had the time to go.

I haven't yet done any competion with my FR-S because I'm only about 750 miles into the break-in period. But rest assured it will see competition, probably Auto-X first, then some RX too.

If you're still reading here's how I break down the differences of the Golf R and the FR-S:

Golf R good:
1: Interior fit and finish
2: Turbo power
3: Hatchback cargo capacity
4: Heated seats

Golf R bad:
1: It wouldn't ever give me full control
2: Isolated from feeling the road
3: No rear bias for the AWD
4: Leather seats! cold in winter, hot in summer, don't breathe at all
5: Boring during daily use
6: Couldn't really use all the power w/o risking a ticket
7: The dual-mass flywheel mucked up clutch feel, hard to modulate consistently
8: Not much aftermarket for the R, especially for handling
9: The community wasn't for me
10: Too much of an unknown/sleeper to the public
11: Driving position
12: The speaker mounted to the firewall to fake a good engine sound

FR-S bad:
1: Cargo space, yes it fits a spare set of wheels, but I have to get a new carrier for my 1/10th scale R/C stuff
2: Girlfriend might miss the heated seats come winter
3: Insurance went up
4: No more turbo torque feel during hard acceleration
5: Have to down shift climbing hills on the highway (minor)
6: The sound generator (minor)
7: Being completely locked out of second when the trans is cold

FR-S good:
1: Connected feeling when driving
2: Driving position
3: The plethora of mods available
4: The free/open exchange of information about said mods
5: People that are into cars know it's awesome
6: Non-car people stare
7: The secret T/C off testing mode
8: It will accept 16" wheels w/o modification
9: I'm sure there will be many more after break-in is complete and I can flog it
10: The handling is so much better, even at 4/10ths
11: don't need POWER! to have fun

[m.wood0213]

Great write up and comparison. GLHF!

[l0aded]

My buddy got a GTI Mk6 recently so I've been doing a lot of comparisons in my head. Probably a closer rival to the twins than the Golf R. IMO the mk6 is a great car but it is kind of boring. Feels like a fast econobox with decent road feel but still a Golf in the end. The bi-xenons, leather, etc. and fit and finish are all great though and I'm sure APR would help a lot.

We did a few races late at night one time and he did beat me so it is quicker straight line but I'm sure we all knew that . I think if I was a better shifter and had my windows closed I would have had him on a few of the rolling runs.

[speargunsandracecars]

I like the Golf R and GTI for what it is... A luxurious(relatively) hot hatch. I've driven my my friend's APR Stage 3 Mk VI GTI. It's monstrously fast. But it lacks the feel of a simple, lightweight sportscar in every single aspect. Coming from an NC, and now a BRZ, anything else feels detached and isolated. Plus, I'm partial to high strung NA motors. Something about them when they sing at high RPMs. And VW... I'm split about them. They make good hot hatches... but they like to put undefeatable(in stock, un-VAG from) nannies in all their vehicles. That, just by principle alone, is unacceptable to me.

[Weasel Soup]

[QUOTE=speargunsandracecars;1707918 And VW... I'm split about them. They make good hot hatches... but they like to put undefeatable(in stock, un-VAG from) nannies in all their vehicles. That, just by principle alone, is unacceptable to me.[/QUOTE]

That's the biggest reason I got out of my R.

The FR-S is just such a willing co-conspirator, where as the R wanted me to play by it's rules.

To put it another way: The R was like my girlfriend's dog. Since she doesn't think I'm her owner she'll only play with me or follow my commands when she thinks it a benefit to her.

[synchromesh]

2017 Golf R 400? "VW premiered the Golf R 400 Concept at the Beijing auto show, and here’s why it’s awesome: Powered by a 2.0-liter, turbocharged EA888 engine tweaked to produce 395 horsepower, it can reach 62 mph in 3.9 seconds and a top speed of 174 mph. Here’s why it’s double awesome: It’s going to be built, the confirmation of which we received directly from VW research and development chief Heinz-Jakob Neusser.

It’s not yet clear if it’s coming to the U.S., but we’d very possibly cut someone to make that happen. We also learned that the engine hasn’t been changed much from the version rated at 290 horsepower in the U.S.-spec Golf R, having only received mild revisions in the interest of withstanding more boost. The basic engine architecture hasn’t been altered. “We haven’t reverted to cast iron and made it into an EA113 again. The EA888 can handle it,” another VW executive told us.

The engine could also migrate to Audi models, with one source telling us that “[VW] wouldn’t take this effort for just one brand.” Does this spell the end of the turbocharged inline-five that we expect to power the next-gen Audi RS3? Not likely. But the R 400 engine no doubt will serve as a kick in the pants to Audi engineers striving to make their EA113-based five-banger even better and more powerful." Wait 3 years and save 30g's??

[speargunsandracecars]

Probably not coming to the US, if I know VW. In the off chance it does, it'll still have non-defeatable electronic nannies because they treat North American drivers like babies.

Cool car though.

[synchromesh]

Never test drove a Golf R but will take your guys word for it. Looked like a pretty amazing sleeper nonetheless parked by the dealership half a year ago. If this thing is in the 50's CDN, options galore! Corvettes, special edition Mustang's, WRX's with mod budgets, and on and on. A bit of a twist on life as I recall the Countaches, Testarossa's, and slant-nose Porsches on my wall as a kid assuming all things go well..


To the OP, yes people react to this car well, considering its modest price and it has the most connected feel I've ever had in a car. Welcome to the club!

[TouchMyHonda]

I own both a 13 R and a 13 BRZ. They are both awesome for opposite reasons.

[BlueDubbinTDI]

I'll be getting the mk7 GTI sooner or later. Thanks for the write up. My Golf TDI is the complete opposite of the FRS. I imagine the new GTI will be more middle ground and I'm excited for it

[juliog]

10. Too much of an unknown/sleeper to the public

That's a plus on my book . I would perhaps debadge it.. even enthusiasts wouldn't look at it twice.

According to reviews, the 2015 Golf R (MK7) finally allows all the driving aids to be shut off. I love tracking my FR-S but I don't enjoy driving it daily, so I'm considering expanding the stable with a MK7 Golf R or GTI..

[Weasel Soup]

The Mk7 R does sound like a marked improvement, but I doubt I'll be sampling it. There are just too many cool cars available right now for me to go back and revisit an 'old flame'.

I forgot something for the 'con list' for the R: The brakes, though sublime, had such big front rotors (13.3 inch) that the car couldn't fit any wheels smaller than 17" w/o swapping to GTI bits. It's not that I couldn't do it, I just didn't want to put in that effort. I didn't ever need all the brake torque/fade resistance those massive rotors provided, and the largest wheel diameter gravel rally tire I have found is a 16 inch.

[EAGLE5]

I looked seriously at the Golf R. A few more cons:
1. Aftermarket parts are crazy expensive for relatively little gain
2. The resale value was crap. Not sure if it still is. The cars were stacked at dealers like cord wood. Meanwhile, people were selling theirs in droves, probably to buy twins.
3. The GTI is almost as good for far, far less money.
4. Too damn heavy.
5. Awful fuel economy. I don't want my turbo 4 to have the economy of a V8.
6. Unreliable.
7. Ugly. It's just a box with side skirts. No passion. No flair.
8. Overpriced.

There are pros though:
1. That gorgeous interior. Comfortable too.
2. Incredible room in the rear for such a small car.
3. A great ride.
4. Good steering feel.
5. VW dealers are nicer than Toyota dealers.

These are in addition to all the totally spot on comments from others. The biggest deal breakers for me were the non-defeatable nannies making it poorly suited for the track, the terrible fuel economy, and the awful value.

[juliog]

Countering some of your points above, and speaking purely about the new MK7:

- GTI is better value for a DD, but if you plan to track or autox often, the new R may be the better deal. Fully defeatable ESP, upgraded suspension and brakes, more power and haldex AWD. Kind of like WRX vs STI.

- It's the lightest car on its class. The euro spec R is ~3,250. An Evo X is 3500, new STI is ~3400, M235i is 3500. Focus ST (FWD) is also 3250. The euro spec GTI is only ~3100! Hope the US spec does not get much fatter . Weight distribution, that's another matter..

- R mileage is decent, 22/31 mpg —UK owners seem to be getting the equivalent to 24 US mpg in the real world. For comparison, Evo X is 17/22, 2015 STI is 19/25, Focus ST is 23/32.

The major con is probably the lack of aftermarket support in the US. The platform is so much more popular in Europe..

All said, if the 2015 STI had the FA25 on it, and there was a hatch version, I would be all over it..