Cams, 2 years from release a good expectation?

[Superhatch]

I just did a search for "cams" and found about 8 threads which say that "Cams are coming soon"...all were posted about a year ago.

I keep hearing "soon" on the forums, but every site I go to that I would expect to have news about FA20 cams is silent. Not "Stay tuned!" silent, but "Cams? Meh...maybe at some point" silent.

I would have expected that with a new motor we would have seen cams from the major players w/in a year, but my expectation now is maybe in another year? I did call a couple Honda aftermarket companies and they all said about 2 years is how long it took for them to get cams onto the market so maybe my expectations were just a little to high.

Does anyone else have any leads on cam release time frames?

[arghx7]

new cams (well, there's only 1 cam) are already out for the new Corvette. Part of that is because of the displacement, and a big part of that is because the cam phaser on that engine isn't that effective for performance.

The FA20 can phase the intake and exhaust independently, and it's already a small displacement and relatively high revving engine. All you can do is add some lift and duration to the cam grind. On engines without dual AVCS style variable valve timing a lot of the benefit to peak power output comes from changing the timing of the valve events. With cam phasers, you can for example basically have as much overlap as you want at whatever speed & load you desire.

It's a big job in terms of the installation, and it will require a significant retuning to take full advantage. There are 4 cams and they're on separate banks, so that's a lot of cost for parts, especially considering you have to drive the DI fuel pump. In short, the cost/benefit is not going to be there for most people. Cams will come out eventually, and you will see a lot of debate about whether it's worth it.

[motokev]

The delay is caused by two rather large issues.

1- Core material

Considering the material makeup of the cam and the ability to have cores made the only way to produce something quick would require billet cores which are way too expensive for the normal street guy.

2- Lobe profile

The factory lobe profiles have a different angle at the transition from the base circle to the ramp which is different than most camshafts. To grind this type of lobe takes very specialized tooling and investment from the grinder.

Per some conversation during a meeting I had this week the gains are there with cams, especially NA applications, and especially with some intake work.

[Zach3794]

One of the big problems is that our stock cams are hollow..with press fit lobes. This in and of itself makes developing new cams a huge upfront cost, and nobody wants to bite the bullet for such a small gain.

[GrimmSpeed]

diss7 had posted this about a month ago: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...hlight=kelford

Where Kelford says something that I didn't even think about: making the core strong enough to run the mechanical fuel pump.

Chase
Engineering

[DAMotorsports]

We are testing cam profiles for a company now. We also have a full head package

[diss7]

I've been meaning to go see Kelford again. I'm going overseas for 6 weeks around April, and I was going to offer my car/motor to them for testing out any new products.

Link wanted to have a play around with it too.

I know that neither actually have a car yet.

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by GrimmSpeed

diss7 had posted this about a month ago: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...hlight=kelford

Where Kelford says something that I didn't even think about: making the core strong enough to run the mechanical fuel pump.

Yes, whoever takes the plunge on the first sets of non-prototype cams are going to be guinea pigs for high pressure fuel pump durability. Obviously fuel economy is not a major concern for someone who is going to go as far as cams, but frictional losses will increase. So you're taking a hit there.

[jamesm]

as stated before... there really isn't much need for aftermarket cams on a car with dual vvt. also, installing them in this car is a time (and $$$ if you're going to a shop) consuming PITA. given such small returns for such a large investment, anyone looking to spend $2-3k on performance probably knows well enough to put that money toward some sort of FI and be done with it.

[350matt]

thats true enough but if you were building an engine to FI then ideally you need to pull it out and fit lower comp pistons and stronger rods anyway

at which point you might as well fit some bumpier sticks if they were available

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by 350matt

thats true enough but if you were building an engine to FI then ideally you need to pull it out and fit lower comp pistons and stronger rods anyway

at which point you might as well fit some bumpier sticks if they were available

that's assuming you're going to build the engine. you could easily just throw on a bolt on kit and make far, far more power than installing a set of cams, which will alone would require removing the engine. so, yeah, the only way it's a good idea is if the engine is already out for some other reason .

[Jason@DSG]

There are almost no available OEM cores, and to date, can't be ordered from Toyota I believe making it difficult to design (that's what I've heard from the big name engine internal manufacturers).

I ran into the same problem on the Eclipse 4G V6 GT platform. There were no available cores for the longest time.

Cams really won't do very much on such a small displacement engine unless you're doing a big turbo -- but a big turbo requires a fully built head, forged internals and most likely a sleeved block.

On my car with my stock turbo, the cam only moved the power band forward with no peak power gain. Then I added a big-boy turbo, forged internals, built head and the cam + turbo made a larger power band across the board with massive peak gains.

[Victor Draken]

so who wants to achieve around 220whp at least while staying N/A is doomed