Suspension Question

[TONYpepperon1]

Having a lot of trouble understanding some things about suspension. Im purchasing RCE Yellows and i know this will drop the car about 20mm. Now this should cause some "natural" negative camber all around correct? If i want to add MORE camber all around or say remove it, do i need the whiteline camber kit or can this be done with just the springs and an alignment. Now what about the OEM camber bolts. How do these differ from the whiteline kit?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by TONYpepperon1

Having a lot of trouble understanding some things about suspension. Im purchasing RCE Yellows and i know this will drop the car about 20mm. Now this should cause some "natural" negative camber all around correct? If i want to add MORE camber all around or say remove it, do i need the whiteline camber kit or can this be done with just the springs and an alignment. Now what about the OEM camber bolts. How do these differ from the whiteline kit?

What goals and driving applications are you looking for?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by TONYpepperon1

Having a lot of trouble understanding some things about suspension. Im purchasing RCE Yellows and i know this will drop the car about 20mm. Now this should cause some "natural" negative camber all around correct? If i want to add MORE camber all around or say remove it, do i need the whiteline camber kit or can this be done with just the springs and an alignment. Now what about the OEM camber bolts. How do these differ from the whiteline kit?

The front will not change at all really. I had some springs that were lower than these and ended up around -.1. The rear on the other hand were ~-2.3 or so if I recall correctly.

The OEM bolts can give you about -1 up front, not sure how much they can remove since I'm only used them to add negative camber.

I never did anything with the rear. The whiteline kit there has limitations and requires bushing replacement if I recall correctly. Easier to replace control arms, but more expensive.

What do you want and what are you using the car for?

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by TONYpepperon1

Having a lot of trouble understanding some things about suspension. Im purchasing RCE Yellows and i know this will drop the car about 20mm. Now this should cause some "natural" negative camber all around correct? If i want to add MORE camber all around or say remove it, do i need the whiteline camber kit or can this be done with just the springs and an alignment. Now what about the OEM camber bolts. How do these differ from the whiteline kit?

We should make a thread and stick it at the top, this question gets asked a LOT.

1) Lowering the car naturally increases camber significantly in the rear due to suspension geometry.

2) Lowering the car naturally increases camber a very small amount in the front, but typically if you want any significant camber change in the front you need camber bolts, 'crash' bolts, camber plates, slotted struts, etc etc.

3) As CSG David alludes to, your suspension specs depend on what you want to do with the car (i.e. street only, street/track/autox combo, dedicated/competitive autox, dedicated/competitive track, all have different alignment requirements).

[TONYpepperon1]

I deff want the car set up for street use. I daily drive it 99% of the time. I just wanted to have bit of an aggressive look but not overly "stanced". It needs to practical.

[Racecomp Engineering]

An alignment sticky is a good idea...

Originally Posted by TONYpepperon1

I deff want the car set up for street use. I daily drive it 99% of the time. I just wanted to have bit of an aggressive look but not overly "stanced". It needs to practical.

I'd recommend the factory camber bolts up front. They're cheap and will help you get the camber you want. You don't end up with a ton up front but it's enough to keep wear even and improve handling slightly.

For the rear, you can get away without adding anything, though I'm anal and would like it to be perfect...to do that you'd want adjustable rear lower control arms or the pain in the ass rear whiteline camber bushing.

- Andy

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by TONYpepperon1

I deff want the car set up for street use. I daily drive it 99% of the time. I just wanted to have bit of an aggressive look but not overly "stanced". It needs to practical.

Just get some camber or crash bolts up front and get the car aligned. Some camber bolts will give you more camber than factory 'crash' bolts, but in general people tend to just 'max' them out. Anything under -2 degrees camber in the front or rear is probably fine for daily and you won't get near that with just bolts and mild lowering springs. Just make sure your toe is set correctly as it changes a bit as you lower the car.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

An alignment sticky is a good idea...



I'd recommend the factory camber bolts up front. They're cheap and will help you get the camber you want. You don't end up with a ton up front but it's enough to keep wear even and improve handling slightly.

For the rear, you can get away without adding anything, though I'm anal and would like it to be perfect...to do that you'd want adjustable rear lower control arms or the pain in the ass rear whiteline camber bushing.

- Andy

Doh beat me to it.

One last thing to add which Andy talks about above, factory alignment specs, particularly camber, are notoriously uneven in these cars. Not a huge deal, but if you want even left/right camber on the rear, you'll likely need some sort of camber adjustment the rear (whiteline UCA bushings, adjustable rear LCA's, etc.) I wouldn't call it being 'anal', but just the same if you're fine with the way your car feels off the lot, you'll probably be fine with no camber adjustment on the rear

[BlueDubbinTDI]

So if I wanted -1 in the front and -2 in the rear natural camber and alignment would be pretty close?

[wparsons]

^^ In the rear, probably pretty close, but up front will be way off without something to add more camber. It'll be very close to 0 still up front even with springs.

[bfrank1972]

Depends on how low you go. RCE springs have a mild drop - with those I doubt you'd get to -1 degrees camber in front and -2 degrees in the rear. Front camber doesn't change much at all when lowering, but camber bolts are cheap and easy to install - they'll get you to -1. If you want -2 natural in the rear you'll want to go with somewhere around 1" drop or a little bit more than that, and again that depends on where your car was at stock (one side might have more camber than the other). If you don't want to go that low and you want -2 degrees in the rear you'll need camber adjustability.

[Racecomp Engineering]

You'd be close to -2 in the rear and probably a little under -1 up front.

The OEM camber bolts are like 10 bucks or less. So...get them. Very much worth it.

- Andy

[TONYpepperon1]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Doh beat me to it.

One last thing to add which Andy talks about above, factory alignment specs, particularly camber, are notoriously uneven in these cars. Not a huge deal, but if you want even left/right camber on the rear, you'll likely need some sort of camber adjustment the rear (whiteline UCA bushings, adjustable rear LCA's, etc.) I wouldn't call it being 'anal', but just the same if you're fine with the way your car feels off the lot, you'll probably be fine with no camber adjustment on the rear

Well i guess this leads me into another question. Tire wear. If say i have -1 in the front -2 in the rear (with a square wheel setup) will there be a problem with tire rotation since they will now be wearing on different parts of the tire?

[BlueDubbinTDI]

Originally Posted by TONYpepperon1

Well i guess this leads me into another question. Tire wear. If say i have -1 in the front -2 in the rear (with a square wheel setup) will there be a problem with tire rotation since they will now be wearing on different parts of the tire?

I thought the same thing. To avoid this ill probably rotate 3-4k miles instead of 5-7k..I really cant think of anything else, tire wear is tire wear and aggressive setups require camber.