Need Advice on 225 front and 245 rear tire suspension setting.

[Figo]

Can anyone give me some advises on my suspension setting? I have 225 front and 245 rear shipping on the way, which are like many other ft86club members have.

A set of goodyear eagle GT tires:

225/40r18 front offset44
245/40r18 rear offset38

Here are my new rims:

18X8.5 front
18X9.5 rear
Rota Grids.

The main reason that I go 225 front and 245 rear is for look. I know that I will lose some oversteer and some fun. Iv thought about 245 front&rear setting, but I was wondering whether 245 is kinda too wide for front wheels.

I have a FR-S with five axis body kit. So I do not want to drop too much because that will hit my bumper everyday. However, I still want some oversteer like FR-S OEM springs(soft front & hard rear).

are there any springs or coilovers that can help me to build a car that similar to the stock setting? I do not want it to be really grip cuz I need some corner-fun on the street.

Things like swap bar will also be good to me.

BTW hows these TANABE GF210 springs?

0.6" Front Drop
0.9" Rear Drop
Front Spring Rate - 2.7 kg/mm
Rear Spring Rate - 4.5 kg/mm

If not, any other lowing springs that you recommend?

Thanks everyone!

[Figo]

Iv seem many members go 225 front and 245 rear setting, just wondering whether there is a proper suspension setting for these tire size.

[ZionsWrath]

It's going to fit no problem. Now I'd much rather see 245 265 stagger.

My 255 rear all seasons suck (continental DWS) so with 245 in rear you will have no problem getting sideways if that is what you want.

[console_cowboy]

First off, what is your offset on those wheels? I'm running 18x8.5" +45 offset front wheels with 245/35/18 tires, and without adjusting camber at the top hat with my whiteline top hats, I wouldn't be able to fit them without some rubbing. I'm also using factory crash bolts to equal out the camber on the front. With the whiteline top hats, I have plenty of clearance and am able to run the camber settings I wanted (about -1.3 up front, honestly more might help). This car really likes front camber to handle well, so losing that for wider tires isn't a good trade off.

I think that going with 35 height tires might have been a better choice, to closer match the factory wheel height. You're going to lose some performance just due to having a taller tire as well as some possible fitment issues.

Do you have any thoughts on how you're going to adjust your rear camber? I'm using the SPC adjustable control arms, but there are many options out there. You're going to want to have something so you can even out your rear camber after a drop. It is also possible your drop will give you too much negative camber as well. From my experience, this car doesn't like too much negative camber. I've got mine set at about -1.2 and that works well, with slight toe in (very slight).

Now as far as having an oversteer feel after springs, I prefer a more neutral car. You can always drive in certain ways to gain a little oversteer. Another good option is setting up a neutral spring setup, then changing your rear sway bar to dial in oversteer. This has some advantages as well. There is an excellent thread about sway bars from a few days ago.

Now as far as springs, I've only used my RCE yellows, and been quite happy with them. They are neutral feeling, but I can still kick the rear out when I want to. If you want a more loose rear, I've read that the Swift FR-S springs keep this feel. There is also a thread about the swift springs if you look in the forum. I'd read up on those to find some people with experience using them. Both of these springs are also a mild drop, so your body kit should stay intact.

Good luck!

[Figo]

Thank you so much man! I run +44 front and +38 rear. For the rubbing problem, did u try spacers? I think I might run 235 front anf 245 rear for me next set of tires. So did you mean adjusting rear sway bar and more negative camber front and less negative rear will help oversteer? I actually just want to choose a good lower spring first hah. And maybe a rear sway bar. Need to save money for the control arm..

Originally Posted by console_cowboy

First off, what is your offset on those wheels? I'm running 18x8.5" +45 offset front wheels with 245/35/18 tires, and without adjusting camber at the top hat with my whiteline top hats, I wouldn't be able to fit them without some rubbing. I'm also using factory crash bolts to equal out the camber on the front. With the whiteline top hats, I have plenty of clearance and am able to run the camber settings I wanted (about -1.3 up front, honestly more might help). This car really likes front camber to handle well, so losing that for wider tires isn't a good trade off.

I think that going with 35 height tires might have been a better choice, to closer match the factory wheel height. You're going to lose some performance just due to having a taller tire as well as some possible fitment issues.

Do you have any thoughts on how you're going to adjust your rear camber? I'm using the SPC adjustable control arms, but there are many options out there. You're going to want to have something so you can even out your rear camber after a drop. It is also possible your drop will give you too much negative camber as well. From my experience, this car doesn't like too much negative camber. I've got mine set at about -1.2 and that works well, with slight toe in (very slight).

Now as far as having an oversteer feel after springs, I prefer a more neutral car. You can always drive in certain ways to gain a little oversteer. Another good option is setting up a neutral spring setup, then changing your rear sway bar to dial in oversteer. This has some advantages as well. There is an excellent thread about sway bars from a few days ago.

Now as far as springs, I've only used my RCE yellows, and been quite happy with them. They are neutral feeling, but I can still kick the rear out when I want to. If you want a more loose rear, I've read that the Swift FR-S springs keep this feel. There is also a thread about the swift springs if you look in the forum. I'd read up on those to find some people with experience using them. Both of these springs are also a mild drop, so your body kit should stay intact.

Good luck!

[Figo]

Did u feel any significant difference by running this set of wide tires?

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

It's going to fit no problem. Now I'd much rather see 245 265 stagger.

My 255 rear all seasons suck (continental DWS) so with 245 in rear you will have no problem getting sideways if that is what you want.

[console_cowboy]

I bought the car with these wheels, but the weight is not much over the factory. I imagine is fairly similar in acceleration, but I'm sure there is a much different steering feel due to the wider tires. You get used to that feel though. I really think that 245/35/18 front and 255/35/18 is a good fit. If anything I'd got 265/35/18 rear. You should really consider going with a shorter tire, check out the wheel fit simulator if you want a visual representation of how much taller the 40 height tires will be.

I did not want to run spacers, as spacers change your scrub radius. I am not sure the effect it has on this car, as I have not tested different offsets myself. You should be good with the +44 offset up front, but the taller tires are going to be an issue with camber. You probably should wait to install springs until you can adjust your camber on all four corners, particularly in the rear. Maybe you'll be lucky, but having the camber off in the rear makes for a less predictable and fun car. Once I adjusted it back into spec, my car felt much better and predictable.

Now as far as the adjustments, I would think that more camber in the rear would help you with oversteer, but there would be other problems running that sort of setup. I know with more rear camber before I installed the control arms, my car was more tail happy. Now if you want to get oversteer from your sway bar, you would install a stiffer sway bar in the rear, or get an adjustable sway bar set and run the front less stiff than the rear. Anything that stiffens the rear end of your car vs the front will make it more tail happy. You can stiffen the rear end with sways or springs. But this is all a more simplistic way to put this. If you just want a drop and a little more loose rear end, I'd probably try the swift fr-s springs, the cheap SPC control arms (under $275), whiteline com-c top hats (this is for your wider wheels), and a set of OEM crash bolts. You should be able to get a very nice alignment out of that without resorting to spacers up front. But I would do my own research and listen to other people as well, I can only tell you about my personal experiences.

[Figo]

I did not go shorter tire because the road in New Jersey are shitty. Also thicker tire can clean the fender gap a little bit. Iv Calculated, my new wheels will be 0.47 inch bigger in diameter front and 1.01 bigger rear. So if I drop the car by 1 inch, the front bumper will be 1-0.47/2=0.765 inch lower. The body kit is also one thing that I hav to consider, lol.

Originally Posted by console_cowboy

I bought the car with these wheels, but the weight is not much over the factory. I imagine is fairly similar in acceleration, but I'm sure there is a much different steering feel due to the wider tires. You get used to that feel though. I really think that 245/35/18 front and 255/35/18 is a good fit. If anything I'd got 265/35/18 rear. You should really consider going with a shorter tire, check out the wheel fit simulator if you want a visual representation of how much taller the 40 height tires will be.

I did not want to run spacers, as spacers change your scrub radius. I am not sure the effect it has on this car, as I have not tested different offsets myself. You should be good with the +44 offset up front, but the taller tires are going to be an issue with camber. You probably should wait to install springs until you can adjust your camber on all four corners, particularly in the rear. Maybe you'll be lucky, but having the camber off in the rear makes for a less predictable and fun car. Once I adjusted it back into spec, my car felt much better and predictable.

Now as far as the adjustments, I would think that more camber in the rear would help you with oversteer, but there would be other problems running that sort of setup. I know with more rear camber before I installed the control arms, my car was more tail happy. Now if you want to get oversteer from your sway bar, you would install a stiffer sway bar in the rear, or get an adjustable sway bar set and run the front less stiff than the rear. Anything that stiffens the rear end of your car vs the front will make it more tail happy. You can stiffen the rear end with sways or springs. But this is all a more simplistic way to put this. If you just want a drop and a little more loose rear end, I'd probably try the swift fr-s springs, the cheap SPC control arms (under $275), whiteline com-c top hats (this is for your wider wheels), and a set of OEM crash bolts. You should be able to get a very nice alignment out of that without resorting to spacers up front. But I would do my own research and listen to other people as well, I can only tell you about my personal experiences.

[Figo]

Hey man, I just read you quot again. What did u mean by saying "more camber in the rear would help you with oversteer"? Did you mean “-1.0 rear will offer more oversteer than -1.3 rear”?

Originally Posted by console_cowboy

I bought the car with these wheels, but the weight is not much over the factory. I imagine is fairly similar in acceleration, but I'm sure there is a much different steering feel due to the wider tires. You get used to that feel though. I really think that 245/35/18 front and 255/35/18 is a good fit. If anything I'd got 265/35/18 rear. You should really consider going with a shorter tire, check out the wheel fit simulator if you want a visual representation of how much taller the 40 height tires will be.

I did not want to run spacers, as spacers change your scrub radius. I am not sure the effect it has on this car, as I have not tested different offsets myself. You should be good with the +44 offset up front, but the taller tires are going to be an issue with camber. You probably should wait to install springs until you can adjust your camber on all four corners, particularly in the rear. Maybe you'll be lucky, but having the camber off in the rear makes for a less predictable and fun car. Once I adjusted it back into spec, my car felt much better and predictable.

Now as far as the adjustments, I would think that more camber in the rear would help you with oversteer, but there would be other problems running that sort of setup. I know with more rear camber before I installed the control arms, my car was more tail happy. Now if you want to get oversteer from your sway bar, you would install a stiffer sway bar in the rear, or get an adjustable sway bar set and run the front less stiff than the rear. Anything that stiffens the rear end of your car vs the front will make it more tail happy. You can stiffen the rear end with sways or springs. But this is all a more simplistic way to put this. If you just want a drop and a little more loose rear end, I'd probably try the swift fr-s springs, the cheap SPC control arms (under $275), whiteline com-c top hats (this is for your wider wheels), and a set of OEM crash bolts. You should be able to get a very nice alignment out of that without resorting to spacers up front. But I would do my own research and listen to other people as well, I can only tell you about my personal experiences.

[console_cowboy]

What I mean by that is, when my car had -2.5 or so negative camber after the spring install, it was more tail happy than it is with -1.3. More camber generally means more negative camber as positive camber is traditionally less desirable.

I can only speak from my experience with my car though.

[Figo]

Lol that make me kinda confused, cuz I think more negative camber result in more grip in the corner.

Originally Posted by console_cowboy

What I mean by that is, when my car had -2.5 or so negative camber after the spring install, it was more tail happy than it is with -1.3. More camber generally means more negative camber as positive camber is traditionally less desirable.

I can only speak from my experience with my car though.

[console_cowboy]

I'm no suspension expert, you'll have to ask some of the other guys in the forums if you want a very detailed answer, but I will do my best to explain.

On mcpherson struts, the increased camber helps more by compensating for cornering and by changing the angle the force acts against the shock. All mcpherson struts are not created equal, and our car has a fairly good design utilizing a long lower control arm up front. So, up front I think that most camber gains would increase the handling feel. I imagine there is a point where it is too much, but I have not experimented with this.

Now our rear suspension is setup in a very different way, utilizing a weird semi-wishbone/multilink hybrid. I do not understand as much about what is going on here, but in my experience too much rear camber, possibly having the camber uneven, made the car feel less planted and could occasionally have a surprising balance shift. I believe the shift I could feel was bumpsteer, and while it was not bad, it was predictable and repeatable. I have heard of some people having bumpsteer issues with similar amounts of camber, however they were lower than me by a good bit. This was only rarely noticeable on my car however. After changing the rear control arms, its been great. I no longer have the issue after fixing my camber. This is why I recommend the arms as a supporting mod, but I am no expert. I am still learning all the time.

EDIT: I would also spend more time learning and doing research before buying parts. If you think that more camber just simply means that the car handles better, then there is more to read. Again, I'm not an expert, but I like to do my research. Its also more about changing characteristics than some idea of "handles better".

[Figo]

I really appreciate ur help. Now I think LCA and front strut mount are actually a good idea. Because it's a new car and I have a lot of time to adjust it to what I want. So it may be a good idea to make all 4 wheel camber adjustable. Do you know other band of strut mount that can be installed on stock strut? I contact RCE and they told me that the pop noise problem has not been solved. Price is not a problem actually. I just do not want to go coiloves because they are too stiff for street driving.

Originally Posted by console_cowboy

I'm no suspension expert, you'll have to ask some of the other guys in the forums if you want a very detailed answer, but I will do my best to explain.

On mcpherson struts, the increased camber helps more by compensating for cornering and by changing the angle the force acts against the shock. All mcpherson struts are not created equal, and our car has a fairly good design utilizing a long lower control arm up front. So, up front I think that most camber gains would increase the handling feel. I imagine there is a point where it is too much, but I have not experimented with this.

Now our rear suspension is setup in a very different way, utilizing a weird semi-wishbone/multilink hybrid. I do not understand as much about what is going on here, but in my experience too much rear camber, possibly having the camber uneven, made the car feel less planted and could occasionally have a surprising balance shift. I believe the shift I could feel was bumpsteer, and while it was not bad, it was predictable and repeatable. I have heard of some people having bumpsteer issues with similar amounts of camber, however they were lower than me by a good bit. This was only rarely noticeable on my car however. After changing the rear control arms, its been great. I no longer have the issue after fixing my camber. This is why I recommend the arms as a supporting mod, but I am no expert. I am still learning all the time.

EDIT: I would also spend more time learning and doing research before buying parts. If you think that more camber just simply means that the car handles better, then there is more to read. Again, I'm not an expert, but I like to do my research. Its also more about changing characteristics than some idea of "handles better".

[console_cowboy]

Just look at adjustable top hats. There are a ton of them out there, I have no clue which ones do or do not work with the factory spring cap. You'll have to make sure that they work with the factory strut/spring cap.

I know RCE has a design they sometimes sell, going to be available in september. Raceseng has a design coming out and hotchkis has some available. They all look like they will work well, but I wouldn't cheap out on the top hats. Some people do and have them bend, based on my research. Its a part of the car that has a lot of stresses, so quality will count here.

Just know there is an increase in NVH when using pillowball top hats. There isn't any give to them, so they will feel more harsh than factory. Other than my once a day click with my whiteline top hats, they are actually fairly easy on the NVH. This was my main reason for selecting them. They are not adjustable, but I am fine using the crash bolts to even the camber at the base. Saying that though, I would not recommend purchasing them until they fix the clicking/popping and failing bearing issue.

Also, if you get fully adjustable top hats, you won't need the crash bolts. You would just do all of your camber adjustments at the top of the mount. Adding crashbolts would just complicate the alignment.