Long Term FR-S

[regal]

Reading the Car & Driver article that predicts Scion brand will be dropped by Toyota, basically saying the FR-S was a "swan song" for the brand , that got me thinking.

First of all this is a very low volume car for a "Toyota", only selling 10k units this year. The Miatas first year was over 100,000 units, then its volume dropped fast. The S2k didn't have enough volume to keep it profitable.

The FR-S/BRZ have a completely unique chassis and share very little parts with any high volume car.

I think long term ownership of this car could be much more like a RX-7 than a Miata. Scarce expensive parts.

An acquaintance once owned a 70's Subaru with 400k miles on the engine. A boxer engine is supposed to very long lasting due to the inherent balance, but these new engines have so much technology with the DI that the long term maintenance may prove very expensive.

I don't buy new cars very often, my first was a Yaris during cash for clunkers, several documented cases of these cars lasting a half a million miles.

Since I bought my FR-S I've put 5k miles on it, CEL light the whole time. Local dealership just keep resetting the CEL, they are so stupid they list the car as a 2013 Scion Supra ! I'm looking at buying a EcuTek just so I can flash the latest firmware, don't have time to deal with the idiots at the stealership.

Driving this car is so fun, it gets good gas milage, so I don't treat it like a rare classic, I drive it all the time and am racking up a lot of miles. But if these are going to be a low volume expensive to maintain vehicle, I might switch back to the Yaris for my DD.

Look at the MR-S owners, the issues that plagues them were a delicate motor and clogged cats, barely good for 100k miles in most cases. What saved them was an easy swap to a common motor from the Celica. But this is a RWD not MR, I really doubt there will be any motor swapping from a high volume car for these. Even motors from Subaru AWD's won't mate to this tranny.

You have to wonder if this is going to be one of those 200k+ trouble free miles Toyotas or a Scion/Subaru bastard stepchild with the same maintenance/reliability issues that plague European cars?

[Enraged21]

Only time will tell.

[Mikem53]

Only time will tell how it holds up in the long run...
But at its low price point.. Most will consider this a "disposable"
Car to be used everyday and not worry about the long term...

[CaptainSlow]

That's why you lease for 3 years, 36,000 miles and let it be someone else's problem later on. One thing this car has going for it is a large and fast-growing aftermarket, which means that even if something breaks and OE parts are ridiculous, there should be a decent aftermarket solution available to you.

[DarkSunrise]

Interesting post, but to post up some comparative numbers:

- Mazda sold 9,477 FD RX-7's in the first year it was released.
- Mazda sold 16,897 NC Miatas in the first full calendar year (CY2006).
- Honda sold 6,797 S2000's in the first full calendar year (CY2000).

In comparison:
- Scion is on pace to sell 21,000 FR-S's in the first full year of sales.
- Subaru is on pace to sell 7,000 BRZ's.
- If you combine the two, that's 28,000 cars sold in the first full year.

source: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10766

That's nearly 3x the number of RX-7's and 4x the number of S2000's. It's also 11k more units sold than the NC Miata.

Time will tell whether these cars maintain their popularity, but the sales numbers so far have been very promising. Also explains why the aftermarket has been so quick to support these cars.

[boead]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Interesting post, but to post up some comparative numbers:

- Mazda sold 9,477 FD RX-7's in the first year it was released.
- Mazda sold 16,897 NC Miatas in the first full calendar year (CY2006).
- Honda sold 6,797 S2000's in the first full calendar year (CY2000).

In comparison:
- Scion is on pace to sell 21,000 FR-S's in the first full year of sales.
- Subaru is on pace to sell 7,000 BRZ's.
- If you combine the two, that's 28,000 cars sold in the first full year.

source: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10766

That's nearly 3x the number of RX-7's and 4x the number of S2000's. It's also 11k more units sold than the NC Miata.

Time will tell whether these cars maintain their popularity, but the sales numbers so far have been very promising. Also explains why the aftermarket has been so quick to support these cars.

How many Mustangs get sold each year?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by boead

How many Mustangs get sold each year?

Mustang US sales were off the chart in the year it was re-designed (2005) - 161,000 units sold.

[HunterGreene]

Before we start getting worried about speculation, remember that the cars are built by Subaru. If the BRZ continues to be made by Subaru, FR-S owners will at least have access to major parts for fixes.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by CaptainSlow

That's why you lease for 3 years, 36,000 miles and let it be someone else's problem later on. One thing this car has going for it is a large and fast-growing aftermarket, which means that even if something breaks and OE parts are ridiculous, there should be a decent aftermarket solution available to you.

I never lease as (from my experiences) you always come out on the loosing end.
If you finance correctly you can come out ahead every single time even if you trade it in every 2 years (I do this for my wife all the time).

Example: I just traded in my wifes 2011 Prius (we owned for exactly 2 years and 2 weeks) with 51K miles and was able to get $550 over the payoff on it (it was financed @60mo 2%interest and only put TTL down). Just to make sure I am not getting my payoff absorbed through my new cars purchase price I never talk or show a trade until I get a firm agreed price on the new vehicle I am purchasing.

[leon78]

I bought this car with the plan to own it for a very long time...with no concern of what the happens to the make/model down the road in the way OP was saying. Its mine, I like it, I will take care of it, and fix things that need fixing as they come up. In the mean time Im gunna drive the piss out of the car as it was meant.

[Apoc]

My take on this is that Scion as a brand is not doing well in North America. This may affect the future of the FR-S, which is under the Scion brand. If Scion goes away I would speculate Toyota will simply release GT86 in NA instead. They wouldn't be so stupid as throw the FR-S away just yet considering the market demand.

[sbxjap]

Originally Posted by Apoc

My take on this is that Scion as a brand is not doing well in North America. This may affect the future of the FR-S, which is under the Scion brand. If Scion goes away I would speculate Toyota will simply release GT86 in NA instead. They wouldn't be so stupid as throw the FR-S away just yet considering the market demand.

That's the same thing I was thinking. Hell, I thought they should've done this from the start.

The price point could've been higher too, to match the BRZ. This would allow for better trim, HIDs, etc. The 10 Series FR-S is what the FR-S should've been like (minus the glowing emblems and solar powered shift knob, lol).

[Books]

Originally Posted by Apoc

My take on this is that Scion as a brand is not doing well in North America. This may affect the future of the FR-S, which is under the Scion brand. If Scion goes away I would speculate Toyota will simply release GT86 in NA instead. They wouldn't be so stupid as throw the FR-S away just yet considering the market demand.

I don't think Scion is going away any time soon. In fact, the FR-S will boost Scion sales. Sales have been consistent over the past few years, which is not necessarily bad... but it's not increasing either.

[naikaidriver]

The worst-case scenario is that sales of the BRZ/FRS will be halted in the US but the 86 will continue to be sold for a few years after overseas. (just like the SW20 MR-2).

Still, I don't think that will be the case with the twins. The reason I say so is because the MR-2, while it was a FANTASTIC car (I owned two of them), it was very expensive compared to many other cars in the states and didn't sell well. The BRZ/FRS is priced VERY well and dealerships are struggling to keep them in stock.

Nobody can predict the future though. Times, and tastes, change.

Scott