Coxial Components and Dash Speakers

[Gopherboy6956]

I talked to a local shop today... They have been around for a least 10 or 15 years now, doing many audio installs for competitions etc.

The manager there told me that really, the mids and tweeters in the dash are more of a manufacturing trick than it is an actual quality setup.

He says that having the woofer and tweeter further away from each other take away from the overall idea of components, and that manufacturers put speakers in the dash because it's easier to make them louder, bouncing sound off the glass.

Against his better salesman judgement, he told me that JL components that are coaxial would be the best setup, and that truly, he would just disable the dash speakers and go with one set of these in the doors. http://www.jlaudio.com/c3-650-car-au...-systems-99022

I then asked about the rear speakers, and he said that in his experience, because of the actual timing delay between when you hear the front and rear sound, it takes away from the clarity you may be looking for.

I feel that's a valid point, as I don't give a shit if my empty back seats hear great audio.

So - at this point, i'm planing on going with the JL's in the door, and subs.

Thoughts? I'm curious to see what the community thinks.

[JoeBoxer]

Definitely right about the rear, i had a 240sx i used image dynamics xs65 components with the tweeter mounted coaxially and it sounded great. Some will say your stage will be to low but its worth a shot. Let us know

[Gopherboy6956]

I'm kind of thinking he might be on to something too. It makes sense when i think about it, and i suppose if I get quality equipment like amps and a good HU, i can compensate for having such a low stage.

I mean, there aren't a ton of excellent plug n play options for the BRZ aside from 3-way comps or coaxial comps.

[JoeBoxer]

Yeah no need for time alignment when mounted coaxially, kinda thinking about it myself so let me know how you like it. In a car this small i don't think stage will be that much of an issue.

[Gopherboy6956]

I agree.

Looking at JL amps and subs now to so I can round out this install.

[JoeBoxer]

An xd500/3 and tw3 10 would be great. Could go with a stealthbox when it comes out if you want.

[Gopherboy6956]

well, you read my mind on the xd500/3, but I was looking at the 10w3v3-2 for the sub. I feel like it should fit in the back corner.

As far as the box goes, i have a knack for doing my own fiberglass. Thinking about doing body color match for this.

[JoeBoxer]

Yeah it should fit also, no need to pay extra for the tw3 really for your application.

[Skippman]

I'm not sure how I feel about the advice this shop is giving you. I feel like we're missing part of the story and I have a feeling it's your budget. I can't think of any reputable car audio store that would recommend going with coaxial speakers in the doors as opposed to a properlly installed component set.

On the rear speakers...

This is a hugely debated topic with die hard car audio junkies. Some think that adding "back fill" makes a difference but the general consensus is ditch the rear speakers.

Why?

Think about it this way. If you're at a concert or live music venue do they ever put speakers behind you pointed at you? Of course not. Couple that with the fact that MOST CD audio is in two channel stereo and you see where having rear speakers isn't necessary for a good imaging. It pulls the sound back as opposed to leaving it in front of you.

[Gopherboy6956]

Originally Posted by Skippman

I'm not sure how I feel about the advice this shop is giving you. I feel like we're missing part of the story and I have a feeling it's your budget. I can't think of any reputable car audio store that would recommend going with coaxial speakers in the doors as opposed to a properlly installed component set.

On the rear speakers...

This is a hugely debated topic with die hard car audio junkies. Some think that adding "back fill" makes a difference but the general consensus is ditch the rear speakers.

Why?

Think about it this way. If you're at a concert or live music venue do they ever put speakers behind you pointed at you? Of course not. Couple that with the fact that MOST CD audio is in two channel stereo and you see where having rear speakers isn't necessary for a good imaging. It pulls the sound back as opposed to leaving it in front of you.

Well, there's no hidden story here - my budget, while not restrictive, it certainly unlimited. Could I spend $1,500 on a component set? Sure. Does that seem horribly ridiculous, absolutely.

The advantage I have with this shop is the manager is very passionate about audio and value. Like I said, the salesman in him SHOULD try to sell me a speaker for every spot in my car, but he'd rather see me pleased with his advice and buy what I need.

At least, that's my take.

Are you saying there are considerably better options here?

[ft_sjo]

You won't find many people in SQ competitions running co-axial speakers.

I have a feeling this guy was either :-

1) Trying to sell you something you could easily install yourself so minimal hassle for him

2) Trying to sell you something he will install at minimal hassle

[Gopherboy6956]

Hmmm... So what is the solution, in your eyes?

[Skippman]

Ok, lets kinda merge your two threads into one here for simplicities sake and to keep people from getting confused.

Please, please, please do not think I'm trying to be a jerk or have anything other than your best interests at heart. I just don't want you to buy X expecting to get Y.

What would "I" do? I've decided to go with a dedicated midwoofer in the door and a wide bander in the dash. A wide band speaker is designed to play midbass frequencies all the way up to the tweeter range. For my application I'm going with some pretty esoteric speakers, but there are other options available that will work for you.

The first question is if you're running full active, meaning you have a seperate amp channel to devote to each speaker. If you do, then a wideband driver in the dash makes sense. If you don't and have to rely on crossovers then a three way setup with a 3" mid would be your best bet. Something along the lines of the Hertz HSK 163s. Given you like JL, the C5-653 should fit although you might need an aftermarket bracket.

The idea is to move the most directional sound up as close to the sound "stage" as you can. The higher the frequency the sound, the more directional it becomes. So installing drivers dedicated to producing those frequencies in the dash makes the most sense.

I'm completely ignoring the factory system here. I do not believe the factory system was tuned to deliver a good sound stage. That being said, the factory locations aren't actually all that terrible and if they were properlly tuned with a DSP and ran full active I think good imaging would be possible.

[Gopherboy6956]

I don't have a problem with that statement. Definitely not being a jerk about it - I asked because I don't know!

I don't think I'm extreme enough to do the separate channel for each driver, so the JL's you mentioned would probably work great for me. I don't so much mind the price when it's basically taking care of the whole front stage.

So, moving on from there - do you think that the XD500/3 would be a good amp for this if I want to run a 10W3v3-2 in addition to those front speakers?