3 wheelin...or dog leggin. - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

chadstyle · 12-30-2012, 10:10 AM

Ok guys, I'm not talking bout hydraulics or air ride tricks here...they used to call picking up the inside rear wheel around a corner. I'm having a small issue with "dog leggin" my BRZ and it has nothing to do with air ride/hydraulics.

I installed the Eibach sway bars front and rear. I love the performance gains felt as the car has zero body roll and stays flat as can be in corners. My issue is entering or exiting driveways with small ramps either coming or going...

The 22mm bar is so stiff that at times I get stuck with one wheel hanging, no drive capabilities due to rear diff, and a flashing traction control light. Luckily in south Florida its really flat and there's not too many of these entrances/exits of businesses with a rise that causes this. In SoCal there's tons of steep driveways as well as many other states with mountains/hills/elevation changes...

Is anyone else having these issues with either the factory sway bar or aftermarket sway bar? There's two adjustment points on the rear bar and I don't even have it set to the tightest setting. It can be amusing at times but when there's cars behind me and I can't move its not so amusing.

sierra · 12-30-2012, 10:43 AM

Apparently if you apply the handbrake a bit it will cause the other wheel to get some drive through the diff by locking up the spinning wheel.
Try that next time.

chadstyle · 12-30-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sierra

Apparently if you apply the handbrake a bit it will cause the other wheel to get some drive through the diff by locking up the spinning wheel.
Try that next time.

Sounds logical.. I'll give it a shot next time I'm just "hanging around"

sierra · 12-30-2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadstyle

Sounds logical.. I'll give it a shot next time I'm just "hanging around"

Let us know if it works in case we get stuck too.

OrbitalEllipses · 12-30-2012, 09:27 PM

Cause and effect of making the rear suspension less independent. Some people will track cars without rear swaybars to prevent lifting. Wheel in the air getting all the torque is natural form from a Torsen LSD. Try the handbrake, but the true solution to getting no power with a wheel in the air is a mechanical LSD (clutch-type). A much cheaper and more proper solution is to not lift a rear wheel at all, which you accomplish by not having such a huge swaybar.

ziggz501 · 12-30-2012, 09:32 PM

I would think that getting a rear wheel to life off the ground in a rwd car would be difficult. I'd imagine that the easiest way to do this is with a fwd car because the rear end isn't squatting during acceleration thru a turn.

Red5 · 12-30-2012, 09:39 PM

If the rear is too stiff, on turn-in lifting the rear wheel isn't too hard. That being said, its usually because your braking a turning hard at the same time, which is generally a bad idea anyways. Try braking sooner and let off the brakes before your turn-in so the front tires are loaded that much. Also, a 22mm bar is enormous for this car unless you've got some impressive rear springs to resist the lift applied to the inside wheel.

All of this is a moot point on an autoX course, though I've seen people put a bigger front bar on instead of a rear bar to tame the understeer present from having to load the front tires so hard all the time.

So, cliff notes: brake sooner, don't overload the front suspension and lighten the rear end, smaller rear bar/stiffer rear springs.

chadstyle · 12-30-2012, 09:49 PM

No, guys...you're getting a little confused. While cornering the car is perfect with no ill handling characteristics. It's only entering/exiting steep driveways at 2-3 mph that the rear wheel will hang. If I were having this issue at the track I'd back off the size of the rear sway bar or if it was really a prob I'd just buy the mech LSD.

It's not a handling problem or issue...it's a "leaving starbucks drive thru" issue

Red5 · 12-30-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadstyle

No, guys...you're getting a little confused. While cornering the car is perfect with no ill handling characteristics. It's only entering/exiting steep driveways at 2-3 mph that the rear wheel will hang. If I were having this issue at the track I'd back off the size of the rear sway bar or if it was really a prob I'd just buy the mech LSD.

It's not a handling problem or issue...it's a "leaving starbucks drive thru" issue

Oh, mine does that with an 18mm bar. It's pretty annoying. There's really nothing you can do other than go faster, if you get stopped with one wheel in the air I've found it's very annoying trying to get going again.

Sent from...somewhere?

Dave-ROR · 12-31-2012, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sierra

Apparently if you apply the handbrake a bit it will cause the other wheel to get some drive through the diff by locking up the spinning wheel.
Try that next time.

This. Once there's load on the lifted wheel the diff will start working again.

CSG Mike · 12-31-2012, 12:11 PM

This happens all the time to us; full droop on our car is about what stock height looks like when its sitting on the ground.

Just leave TC on and it'll automatically apply rear brake for you, or go with handbrake on a little.

chadstyle · 12-31-2012, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

This. Once there's load on the lifted wheel the diff will start working again.

Thanks Dave, I'm taking the car out for a little drive and to run some errands today...if I find myself hanging as I enter or exit a parking lot I'll try this out.

Overall I'm extremely happy with the sway bars and strut brace combination..my car is super stiff and handles amazing under all driving conditions...except leaving the drive thru lol. Someone mentioned to just go a little faster but I'd def scrape up the front end and undercarriage if I did so hopefully the handbrake is my saving grace. It would be a little embarrassing to have to open the door and give a little Fred flintstone push

camelflage · 12-31-2012, 12:48 PM

ha, nevermind, you already shot down the flintstone impression.. :rofl:

handbrake, pro status..

AZP Installs · 12-31-2012, 01:33 PM

The old Peeing Dog as we call it! Although we usually notice it more on track with FWD cars.

It is odd to see it happening at slow speeds in driveways though.

-Mike Paisan

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

12-30-2012, 10:10 AM	#1
chadstyle Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Drives: 2013 Subaru BR-Z Limited Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida Posts: 883 Thanks: 407 Thanked 562 Times in 294 Posts Mentioned: 42 Post(s) Tagged: 4 Thread(s)	3 wheelin...or dog leggin. Ok guys, I'm not talking bout hydraulics or air ride tricks here...they used to call picking up the inside rear wheel around a corner. I'm having a small issue with "dog leggin" my BRZ and it has nothing to do with air ride/hydraulics. I installed the Eibach sway bars front and rear. I love the performance gains felt as the car has zero body roll and stays flat as can be in corners. My issue is entering or exiting driveways with small ramps either coming or going... The 22mm bar is so stiff that at times I get stuck with one wheel hanging, no drive capabilities due to rear diff, and a flashing traction control light. Luckily in south Florida its really flat and there's not too many of these entrances/exits of businesses with a rise that causes this. In SoCal there's tons of steep driveways as well as many other states with mountains/hills/elevation changes... Is anyone else having these issues with either the factory sway bar or aftermarket sway bar? There's two adjustment points on the rear bar and I don't even have it set to the tightest setting. It can be amusing at times but when there's cars behind me and I can't move its not so amusing. __________________ ChadStyle's Build

12-30-2012, 09:27 PM	#5
OrbitalEllipses Banned Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: Attitude Location: MD Posts: 10,046 Thanks: 884 Thanked 4,890 Times in 2,903 Posts Mentioned: 123 Post(s) Tagged: 4 Thread(s)	Cause and effect of making the rear suspension less independent. Some people will track cars without rear swaybars to prevent lifting. Wheel in the air getting all the torque is natural form from a Torsen LSD. Try the handbrake, but the true solution to getting no power with a wheel in the air is a mechanical LSD (clutch-type). A much cheaper and more proper solution is to not lift a rear wheel at all, which you accomplish by not having such a huge swaybar. Last edited by OrbitalEllipses; 12-30-2012 at 09:42 PM. Reason: Clarity

12-30-2012, 09:49 PM	#8
chadstyle Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Drives: 2013 Subaru BR-Z Limited Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida Posts: 883 Thanks: 407 Thanked 562 Times in 294 Posts Mentioned: 42 Post(s) Tagged: 4 Thread(s)	No, guys...you're getting a little confused. While cornering the car is perfect with no ill handling characteristics. It's only entering/exiting steep driveways at 2-3 mph that the rear wheel will hang. If I were having this issue at the track I'd back off the size of the rear sway bar or if it was really a prob I'd just buy the mech LSD. It's not a handling problem or issue...it's a "leaving starbucks drive thru" issue __________________ ChadStyle's Build

12-30-2012, 10:43 AM	#2
sierra Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: Skoda Yeti DSG diesel 4x4 Location: W. Australia Posts: 1,203 Thanks: 336 Thanked 307 Times in 230 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Apparently if you apply the handbrake a bit it will cause the other wheel to get some drive through the diff by locking up the spinning wheel. Try that next time.

12-30-2012, 09:39 PM	#7
Red5 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Drives: FRS Location: Places Posts: 110 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	If the rear is too stiff, on turn-in lifting the rear wheel isn't too hard. That being said, its usually because your braking a turning hard at the same time, which is generally a bad idea anyways. Try braking sooner and let off the brakes before your turn-in so the front tires are loaded that much. Also, a 22mm bar is enormous for this car unless you've got some impressive rear springs to resist the lift applied to the inside wheel. All of this is a moot point on an autoX course, though I've seen people put a bigger front bar on instead of a rear bar to tame the understeer present from having to load the front tires so hard all the time. So, cliff notes: brake sooner, don't overload the front suspension and lighten the rear end, smaller rear bar/stiffer rear springs.

12-31-2012, 12:11 PM	#11
CSG Mike Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: S2000 CR Location: Orange County Posts: 14,562 Thanks: 8,942 Thanked 14,211 Times in 6,854 Posts Mentioned: 970 Post(s) Tagged: 14 Thread(s)	This happens all the time to us; full droop on our car is about what stock height looks like when its sitting on the ground. Just leave TC on and it'll automatically apply rear brake for you, or go with handbrake on a little.

12-31-2012, 12:48 PM	#13
camelflage Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: pinto power Location: Sterling, VA Posts: 709 Thanks: 76 Thanked 192 Times in 136 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	ha, nevermind, you already shot down the flintstone impression.. :rofl: handbrake, pro status..

12-31-2012, 01:33 PM	#14
AZP Installs Join Date: Oct 2011 Drives: '11 STi->'14 BRZ \| '14 Touareg TDi Location: Kenilworth, NJ Posts: 1,269 Thanks: 359 Thanked 558 Times in 371 Posts Mentioned: 49 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The old Peeing Dog as we call it! Although we usually notice it more on track with FWD cars. It is odd to see it happening at slow speeds in driveways though. -Mike Paisan 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! \| E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com \| 725 Fairfield Ave \| Kenilworth, NJ 07033 \| 908.248.AZP1 (2971) \| T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber \|AIM: AZP Installs *"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"*

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