SCCA Proposes to Ban E-85 in Street Touring Classes

[Tirewarmer]

I wanted to let everyone know that the SCCA is asking for input regarding a proposal that would disallow E-85 as a fuel in the Street Touring classes:

"Street Touring

#9305 E85 Usage

Per the STAC, replace the last sentence in 3.6.A with the following:
Fuels comprised of more than 10% Ethanol may only be used when specified by the manufacturer (e.g. in the owner’s manual for Flex-Fuel vehicles)

Comment: The use of E85 is becoming more and more widespread within the Street Touring category. In some vehicles it can enable significant power increases, while in others it cannot. Cars have not been classed with this in mind. With inconsistent availability across the nation, it gives significant advantage to those willing to trailer their cars, as opposed to those who choose to daily-drive them. Unlike high octane pump fuels, E85 is relatively easy to police as its use is quite obvious due to smell. Ethanol content in a fuel sample can also be tested easily in the field.
In the Stock category, there is no option to retune a car for the use of E85 so only those designed as Flex-Fuel vehicles can use the fuel anyway. This change will have no effect there."

I obviously don't agree with this, since I know that many of us have planned to both compete and daily drive on E-85 due to the inexpensive HP gain that it gives when used with a tune.

The way to prevent this from happening is to contact the SCCA SOLO Events Board here:

www.sebscca.com

and make the simple statement that "Disallowing E-85 in the Street Touring classes would negatively affect my participation in SCCA SOLO events." The more input the better regarding this.

[GTB/ZR-1]

Ridiculous... Injectors can't be changed, so that would be further prohibitive to the class. It's not like tremendous gains can be achieved with stock injectors.

Besides, e85 is readily available abt 3-4 miles from the Nats site in Lincoln.

[mla163]

People were getting some pretty big gains on this particular car with E85 and stock injectors. Even though it hurts these cars, I support the proposal. Otherwise, it's a slippery slope. E85 is not easy to come by for regular joes who autocross on the weekends in their DD. I know of a few places where I could pick it up around me, but it is not exactly convenient. E85 favors trailer queens. It's too much for the intent of ST.

One of my buddies got an E85 tune for Nationals. It blew my mind that it was legal - I didn't even realize it. All that I was thinking is "great, now I need to do this too".

Of course, race gas is still legal, so....

[xwd]

I submitted a letter. I don't have a dog in the fight since I'm running CS but to me E85 is a safe way to make more power. Otherwise guys will be running 93/94 and tuning to the ragged edge of reliability.

Also race gas needs to be disallowed as well, and policing that isn't very easy. Some guys have 100-104 octane readily available, albeit expensive, most do not have it available at all.

[Kido1986]

Hmmm not sure if I like it or not. I was highly considering switching to E85 when I make a move to STX soon (and watch GTB/ZR-1 stomp me into the ground hahah) as these cars have a good benefit.

Aren't the big benefiting cars turbo because of the extra boost where increase boost is not allowed in ST*? I kinda like the idea of being able to run E85 on autocross days but I may have a little bit of bias since we get nearly 10% gains over a 93 tune.

[-max-]

It makes no sense to ban e85 and not race fuel. Either both or neither.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by -max-

It makes no sense to ban e85 and not race fuel. Either both or neither.

I guess maybe the differentiator being that everyone can run a 100 octane unleaded street gas tune, not every vehicle has the ability to run E85 and still be rule-compliant, giving unfair advantage to those that can... dunno.

I think a better question is... Which cars are OE "flex fuel" that benefit from this rule change by locking everyone else out? I can't imagine there are many.

[UncleFester]

I support the thoughts on injector sizing and that if E85 is banned so should race gas. Seems E85 is targeted because it is easy to detect and perhaps some vehicles don't get as much advantage by using it. The availability of E85 should not be part of the argument.

Letter submitted.

[7thgear]

Is E85 a more efficient fuel? Cheaper to produce? Safer to produce?

Automotive racing should advance mass consumer products, like F1 using gas similar to what you can get at the pump.

Is E85 the way of the future?

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by Tirewarmer

"Disallowing E-85 in the Street Touring classes would negatively affect my participation in SCCA SOLO events." The more input the better regarding this.

I cannot STAND statements like this... really... you are going to stop showing up to events because your class can't run E85?

I just don't understand why people get soooo bent out of shape because rule sets get tweaked in an attempt to improve the competitive balance and to try to preserve the intention of the class.

You can certainly have an opinion on whether a change does or does not meet the objectives, but for god sake, don't sensationalize it like that, it's a grotesque overstatement to try and get your way. Provide a valid reason it should stay a part of the class regulations or stop crying about it.
"Keep it in there or I'm taking my toys and going home" is not a valid reason.

[7thgear]

some people think the world owes them everything

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

Is E85 a more efficient fuel? Cheaper to produce? Safer to produce?

Automotive racing should advance mass consumer products, like F1 using gas similar to what you can get at the pump.

Is E85 the way of the future?

Sounds like you are unfamiliar with E85? Ethanol itself has an octane rating of 113, so ethanol addition will bring up your octane rating. However, Ethanol only has an energy density of around 26.8 MJ/kg, compared to pure gasoline which is in the mid 40's MJ/kg. So therefore, you can run leaner with less chance of pre-detonation (more efficient chemical reaction), but you have to flow more fuel to make up for the reduced energy density of the fuel.

So you can make more power, but if your fuel system is limited, your ability to do so in ST is completely dependant on how oversized your OE fuel system is because you cant modify it.

With the twin's D4S system, you can modify the fuel mapping to run higher duty cycle of both systems to flow the fuel you need... we get an advantage over other non-turbo cars in this regard with E85.

The real questions regarding E85 as a fuel source is in regards to the footprint of the ethanol source and it's carbon neutrality. No sense getting into it here, but there are many compelling arguments against it for sustainability, government subsidies for corn ethanol are also a hot button on the topic. Sugar cane is a much more efficient footprint for ethanol production, but obviously isn't able to grow everywhere. Brazil for example provides 100% ethanol fuels because they produce theirs from sugar cane.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

Sounds like you are unfamiliar with E85? Ethanol itself has an octane rating of 113, so ethanol addition will bring up your octane rating. However, Ethanol only has an energy density of around 26.8 MJ/kg, compared to pure gasoline which is in the mid 40's MJ/kg. So therefore, you can run leaner with less chance of pre-detonation (more efficient chemical reaction), but you have to flow more fuel to make up for the reduced energy density of the fuel.

So you can make more power, but if your fuel system is limited, your ability to do so in ST is completely dependant on how oversized your OE fuel system is because you cant modify it.

With the twin's D4S system, you can modify the fuel mapping to run higher duty cycle of both systems to flow the fuel you need... we get an advantage over other non-turbo cars in this regard with E85.

no i am not familiar with ethanol in fuel beyond the basics.

sounds like ethanol for race use just means you're burning through more fuel and if only some cars benefit i can see why it would be best to just ban it.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

no i am not familiar with ethanol in fuel beyond the basics.

sounds like ethanol for race use just means you're burning through more fuel and if only some cars benefit i can see why it would be best to just ban it.

Basically, yes, you get crap for gas mileage but you can make more power, significantly more on forced induction vehicles.

For example we ran 100 octane leaded mix in the GXP and were about 75 ft lbs down to other ASP Kappas who were running E85. Unfortunately, the Kappa High Pressure fuel system is inadequate at the top of the RPM range, so the engine starts breaking up around 6500 RPMs, part of the reason we never switched over ourselves. The HP fuel pump in those cars is cam driven by 3 lobes on the cam, you really need a 4th lobe to increase the flow enough... but since cam modifications are currently illegal in SP, nothing you can do from that front. It is SP legal to makeshift a port injection system to supplement the High Pressure DI system (similar to D4S), buuuut that is significantly more complicated.