Brake pad suggestions for AutoX+street?

[timurrrr]

So I've been doing AutoX on OEM pads in my '17 BRZ with Performance Package Brembos.

At one of the recent events, there were a few sections of the course where it was beneficial to grab the 3rd gear, and I had to do some 3-2 heel-toe downshifts.
Compared to how I do heel-toe at track with CSG C1/C2 pads, I realized how much deeper the brake pedal goes with OEM pads, which changes the relative positions of the pedals, and makes it too easy to accidentally over-blip the throttle.
I also noticed that sometimes I literally hit the floor when braking hard, e.g. after the finish line.

I then swapped cars with my girlfriend for a few runs and she immediately noticed how much more effort is needed for my brake pedal.
At the same time, I found heel-toe'ing in her ND2 Miata so much easier than in mine, as if I drove her car my entire life.

So now I'm thinking I should stop using OEM pads and get something new...
Here's what I want from new pads:

• Streetable. I don't want three sets of pads (street + track + autox).
• Little to no squeaking, little to no dust.
• Stiff. I don't want my brake pedal to go all the way to the floor when I brake hard. With CSG C2 the pedal has much shorter travel.
• Higher coefficient of friction than OEM, but perhaps less than CSG C2. I don't want the pedal to be too sensitive (see below).
• Fits PP Brembos (if it wasn't clear already)

As I already said, I have CSG C2 pads, but I don't want to use them for anywhere other than the track and driving to/from the track.
They're noisy on the street and dusty. I once autox'ed with them and my front wheels turned black towards the end of the day. I also feel that their coefficient of friction is a bit too high on track for 245 mm wide 260 TW GT Radial SX2.
Although on the second thought maybe with 200 TW tires they would feel ok.

My girlfriend's Miata has Porterfield R4-S and "base" calipers, and they felt pretty good to me.
Although admittedly I didn't brake too many times during the few runs that I got
My gf has no complaints about noise or dust from these pads so far.

Any suggestions?
Thanks!

[strat61caster]

Interesting I had a bad experience with Porter fields a few years back (Sparks, noise, dust) but it sounds like you should just get those?

I like my ds2500 but I don't think they have stiff pedal feel and they squeak a little on the street. Maybe carbotech ax6/gloc R6? I've liked autocrossing both of those but never did Street driving with them, ax6 might have been a bit noisy on the street iirc.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Interesting I had a bad experience with Porter fields a few years back (Sparks, noise, dust) but it sounds like you should just get those?

Do you remember which compound you used?

[gen3v8]

Seems to tick all the boxes.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Do you remember which compound you used?

Not with any confidence no. Different chassis fwiw.

[whataboutbob]

Winmax W3s worked great for me in autox, even with Hoosier A7s, YMMV.

[cjd]

I've run both AX-6 and ds2500. Preferred the ax6 for cold and hot bite as well as feel. Hot, ds2500 seem similar,maybe slightly more pedal initially. Both noisy on AP Sprint...
Never autocrossed with the stock Brembo setup to compare, barely drove on the street. Better than the regular setup for feel. Not saying much.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

So I've been doing AutoX on OEM pads in my '17 BRZ with Performance Package Brembos.

At one of the recent events, there were a few sections of the course where it was beneficial to grab the 3rd gear, and I had to do some 3-2 heel-toe downshifts.
Compared to how I do heel-toe at track with CSG C1/C2 pads, I realized how much deeper the brake pedal goes with OEM pads, which changes the relative positions of the pedals, and makes it too easy to accidentally over-blip the throttle.
I also noticed that sometimes I literally hit the floor when braking hard, e.g. after the finish line.

I then swapped cars with my girlfriend for a few runs and she immediately noticed how much more effort is needed for my brake pedal.
At the same time, I found heel-toe'ing in her ND2 Miata so much easier than in mine, as if I drove her car my entire life.

So now I'm thinking I should stop using OEM pads and get something new...
Here's what I want from new pads:

• Streetable. I don't want three sets of pads (street + track + autox).
• Little to no squeaking, little to no dust.
• Stiff. I don't want my brake pedal to go all the way to the floor when I brake hard. With CSG C2 the pedal has much shorter travel.
• Higher coefficient of friction than OEM, but perhaps less than CSG C2. I don't want the pedal to be too sensitive (see below).
• Fits PP Brembos (if it wasn't clear already)

As I already said, I have CSG C2 pads, but I don't want to use them for anywhere other than the track and driving to/from the track.
They're noisy on the street and dusty. I once autox'ed with them and my front wheels turned black towards the end of the day. I also feel that their coefficient of friction is a bit too high on track for 245 mm wide 260 TW GT Radial SX2.
Although on the second thought maybe with 200 TW tires they would feel ok.

My girlfriend's Miata has Porterfield R4-S and "base" calipers, and they felt pretty good to me.
Although admittedly I didn't brake too many times during the few runs that I got
My gf has no complaints about noise or dust from these pads so far.

Any suggestions?
Thanks!

CSG CP is your answer.

No, the transfer is not compatible with C2; you will ideally want dedicated rotors, and also mark which pad goes in which position, so every time you swap, you don't need to re-mate surfaces.


Depending on the condition of your master, firewall, etc., you may find the CP suitable to track with SX2, but not with 200TW.

In between, in terms of friction, falls the C1.

[villainous_frx]

I like(d) my Endless MX72+, lower dust. Heat up quickly for track/spirited driving, good on the street when cold, pretty good modulation.

[Bonburner]

Sounds like you want something everyone wants, but doesn't exist.
There's a reason why people have dedicated sets of pads for track and street.

The best middle ground that seems to fit your needs would be ceramic breaks ... as you'll have low dust and should be better than factory pads. But I don't know if they'll be better than the brembo's in your car. But ceramics don't take as much of a beating on track.

That being said, I've been using EBC Yellow pads and they've been great on cold start streets and at the track. Dust has been slightly better than powerstop sports (but still dustier than stocks) and noise is great - haven't heard a squeal.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Bonburner

Sounds like you want something everyone wants, but doesn't exist.
There's a reason why people have dedicated sets of pads for track and street.

Umm, I think you're referring to the "one pad that does them all". I'm aware that it's the holy grail.
The requirements above specifically say that I don't need the desired pad to be trackable, as I already have a dedicated track pad.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

No, the transfer is not compatible with C2; you will ideally want dedicated rotors, and also mark which pad goes in which position, so every time you swap, you don't need to re-mate surfaces.

Is the transfer of C1/C2's compatible with anything?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Is the transfer of C1/C2's compatible with anything?

Themselves.

Really, pad and rotor surfaces have to mate up anytime non-mated pads/rotors are used, so the compatibility is usually a non-issue, but C2 and C1 can interchange without issue beyond mating. So can C21 and some other CSG compounds, but CP will not, as the CP is a different family of pad altogether.

[Racecomp Engineering]

FWIW I like my Porterfield R4S pads for street/autox/rallyx.This is for standard 2016 calipers. Also have grimspeed master cylinder brace which did not do much for the absolute garbage OEM pads except highlight how garbage they were.

No noise and it was in the upper 30s F this morning.
Dust...probably more than stock but not terrible. My car is often dirty.
Feel is much better than stock and also not an on-off switch. Easy to modulate.

The Porterfields are kind of an "old" pad, but they work well. There are newer and probably better pads (Myles loves the Endless pads) but those are generally more expensive.

- Andrew