Bolt-on HP estimates? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

euroshowoff · 08-04-2021, 12:03 PM

What are some good estimates the 2nd gen hp will be with all the 1st gen bolt on mods? Tune, header etc?

Do you think the 2.4 will respond better to mods?

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HKz · 08-04-2021, 12:50 PM

Lantanafrs2 · 08-04-2021, 03:34 PM

In all seriousness I wouldn't be surprised if the new ecu has a few tricks in it to make tuning more difficult but I'm guessing 225 whp to be possible with e85 once the bugs are worked out.

RippedManiac · 08-10-2021, 11:43 PM

My 17' hit 186/148 wheel on 91 with catless header and tune.

Baseline was 170/133 with header on.

Thats an improvement of 9% whp and 10% wtq

170 / 205 = 0.829 so about 17% HP drivetrain loss from stock
133 / 155 = 0.858 so about 14% TQ drivetrain loss from stock

Assuming next gen has close to if not the same drivetrain loss, 228/184 equals to about 189/158. Which is pretty close to my car.

Assuming we get the same gains from NA bolt ons as last gen and add 9%whp and 10%wtq we end up with 206/180 wheel.

PulsarBeeerz · 08-11-2021, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RippedManiac

My 17' hit 186/148 wheel on 91 with catless header and tune.

Baseline was 170/133 with header on.

Thats an improvement of 9% whp and 10% wtq

170 / 205 = 0.829 so about 17% HP drivetrain loss from stock
133 / 155 = 0.858 so about 14% TQ drivetrain loss from stock

Assuming next gen has close to if not the same drivetrain loss, 228/184 equals to about 189/158. Which is pretty close to my car.

Assuming we get the same gains from NA bolt ons as last gen and add 9%whp and 10%wtq we end up with 206/180 wheel.

Its been stated that the 2nd Gen does ~195whp+ on a SAE Dynojet which is similar to a E85 on an otherwise stock Gen1. It should scoot pretty good. JDM tuners already have their hands on them and it appears the ECU is just as flexible as before.

Irace86.2.0 · 08-12-2021, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euroshowoff

What are some good estimates the 2nd gen hp will be with all the 1st gen bolt on mods? Tune, header etc?

Do you think the 2.4 will respond better to mods?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Better? No. Just has more displacement.

The only way it would respond better is if it was more conservatively tuned, leaving room for tuning. The redline is already the same with bigger pistons. Unless they fixed springs and oiling, there probably isn’t anything left rpm wise with just bolt ons and a tune.

Did they keep the same sized throttle body? That could use a bump maybe. I wouldn’t expect much of a difference overall besides displacement. It already is a high strung motor.

PulsarBeeerz · 08-12-2021, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Better? No. Just has more displacement.

The only way it would respond better is if it was more conservatively tuned, leaving room for tuning. The redline is already the same with bigger pistons. Unless they fixed springs and oiling, there probably isn’t anything left rpm wise with just bolt ons and a tune.

Did they keep the same sized throttle body? That could use a bump maybe. I wouldn’t expect much of a difference overall besides displacement. It already is a high strung motor.

They use a larger TB. I forget the size but it was over 68mm I believe.

Irace86.2.0 · 08-12-2021, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

They use a larger TB. I forget the size but it was over 68mm I believe.

Thanks and Grams is 72mm.

Hades · 08-13-2021, 03:44 AM

I think Irace86's point is reasonable, but at the same time even if we get similar gains out of the 2.4L it will still be a good improvement over what the 2.0L cars get with bolt-ons. I think this will be very competitive in NASA and other racing classes (which the pessimistic-side of my brain tells me that will lead to NASA furthering the handicap on the 86 platform).

RippedManiac · 08-13-2021, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Its been stated that the 2nd Gen does ~195whp+ on a SAE Dynojet which is similar to a E85 on an otherwise stock Gen1. It should scoot pretty good. JDM tuners already have their hands on them and it appears the ECU is just as flexible as before.

Link on 195 claim?

timurrrr · 08-13-2021, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RippedManiac

Link on 195 claim?

https://www.everydaydriver.com/singl...ew-86-is-close

Quote:

The engineer team also verified that the new car’s wheel dyno output numbers are indeed right at that 195-200 mark as my car is.

Pete · 08-19-2021, 11:16 AM

I am interested to see what the FI possibilities are on the new engine with more displacement but a higher compression rate.

Back when I modded my FRS in 2013 the Edelbrock kit wasn't out, that piece looks the business. I was just looking at some dyno charts for it. If I do decide to go with forced induction again, at first I was thinking about going the turbo route this time since I have more experience with turbo cars now than I did back then. But now....I would want to see what Edelbrock does with their kit first because that is a very nice, clean part that IMHO looks good in the engine bay.

It will probably be a good long wait before the tuners get really comfortable with the new engine though. I'm just speculating/rambling.

timurrrr · 08-19-2021, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

I am interested to see what the FI possibilities are on the new engine with more displacement but a higher compression rate.

Compression rate is the same as last gen. Please read the latest official press releases.

Pete · 08-19-2021, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Compression rate is the same as last gen. Please read the latest official press releases.

My mistake

Still, that is even more interesting then. The 2.0 liter responded well to mods and forced induction. With more displacement + stronger rods I can't wait to see what the tuning shops can do with the 2.4.

08-04-2021, 12:03 PM	#1
euroshowoff Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Drives: 2015 Tacoma Location: VA Posts: 157 Thanks: 19 Thanked 32 Times in 27 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Bolt-on HP estimates? What are some good estimates the 2nd gen hp will be with all the 1st gen bolt on mods? Tune, header etc? Do you think the 2.4 will respond better to mods? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ "Bah Weep Granah Weep Nini Bong" Old: 2013 Arengto FR-S Current: 2015 Tacoma/2020 Sequoia Pro Future: 2022 CWP Limited Est Delivery 06/22

08-10-2021, 11:43 PM	#4
RippedManiac Jedi Join Date: Feb 2017 Drives: Pikachu BRZ Location: Toronto Posts: 89 Thanks: 46 Thanked 38 Times in 26 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	My 17' hit 186/148 wheel on 91 with catless header and tune. Baseline was 170/133 with header on. Thats an improvement of 9% whp and 10% wtq 170 / 205 = 0.829 so about 17% HP drivetrain loss from stock 133 / 155 = 0.858 so about 14% TQ drivetrain loss from stock Assuming next gen has close to if not the same drivetrain loss, 228/184 equals to about 189/158. Which is pretty close to my car. Assuming we get the same gains from NA bolt ons as last gen and add 9%whp and 10%wtq we end up with 206/180 wheel. Last edited by RippedManiac; 08-11-2021 at 12:20 AM.

08-19-2021, 11:16 AM	#12
Pete Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 22 BRZ Location: Houston, TX Posts: 615 Thanks: 1,341 Thanked 478 Times in 230 Posts Mentioned: 15 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I am interested to see what the FI possibilities are on the new engine with more displacement but a higher compression rate. Back when I modded my FRS in 2013 the Edelbrock kit wasn't out, that piece looks the business. I was just looking at some dyno charts for it. If I do decide to go with forced induction again, at first I was thinking about going the turbo route this time since I have more experience with turbo cars now than I did back then. But now....I would want to see what Edelbrock does with their kit first because that is a very nice, clean part that IMHO looks good in the engine bay. It will probably be a good long wait before the tuners get really comfortable with the new engine though. I'm just speculating/rambling. __________________ 2013 FRS -> 2011 CTS-V -> 2006 Cayman S -> 2015 GTI -> 2022 BRZ

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08-04-2021, 12:50 PM	#2
HKz Reformed Join Date: Sep 2014 Drives: '23 GRC, '11 Prius, '04 RAV4 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 1,325 Thanks: 1,258 Thanked 1,152 Times in 596 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)

08-04-2021, 03:34 PM	#3
Lantanafrs2 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Drives: 2013 frs red Location: South Florida Posts: 3,570 Thanks: 2,579 Thanked 3,132 Times in 1,684 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	In all seriousness I wouldn't be surprised if the new ecu has a few tricks in it to make tuning more difficult but I'm guessing 225 whp to be possible with e85 once the bugs are worked out.

08-13-2021, 03:44 AM	#9
Hades Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Drives: 2013 Scion FRS Location: Socal Posts: 214 Thanks: 521 Thanked 100 Times in 64 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I think Irace86's point is reasonable, but at the same time even if we get similar gains out of the 2.4L it will still be a good improvement over what the 2.0L cars get with bolt-ons. I think this will be very competitive in NASA and other racing classes (which the pessimistic-side of my brain tells me that will lead to NASA furthering the handicap on the 86 platform).

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