Eccentric camber bushings for lower control arms - anyone tried them? Alignment?

[Nickmann]

Hey Guys,

this is my first post in this forum. Hope someone can help me with my questions.

I'm planning to lower my BRZ by Eibach Pro-Spring kit. Since everyone recommends to set the camber in front to a more negative camber und on the rear to a neutral camber for having less understeer, I'm seeking for a solution for the rear axle to adjust camber there.
On the front axle, I will use camber bolts.

Due to the fact, that in Germany adjustable LCAs are not legal, I was looking for special eccentric bushings to making the LCAs adjustable. There are some from Superpro available, like these:



So my question is, has anybody tried them? As far as I know, you need a press to dismount the old bushings from the LCA, but you can put in the new ones without any special equipment. Is this true?
I was thinking about to buy them already installed from a dealer that sells OEM-LCAs with those bushings already pressed in, but I still want to know how difficult this would be to do this by my own.

And how about the alignment? Does a regular alignment shop knows how to handle with them since the BRZ has no camber adjustment opportunities originally?
Can a good mechanic adjust my camber when I tell him, I do have those bushings installed or do I need a specialist for adjusting this?


It seems like in Germany everyone recommends me to go to a Suspension specialist with them instead of a regular alignment shop and for me it's hard to believe if this is the only opportunity, so I wanted to ask here because you guys seems to have a lot more users here.

Thank you for your experiences so far.

Best,
Nickmann


EDIT: Picture shows probably wrong parts - the bushings for the LCA look the same, but there are just two instead of four

[JIM THEO]

Welcome to the forum Nick!
I have them in my car but very difficult to align rear camber, each time you have to unscrew the main bolt turn the bush to the desired position and screw again with rear wheels on the air!
I should have tried an appropriate size camber bolt (intended for front wheels) in place of the original bolt that is easier to adjust with the wheels on the ground.

[churchx]

Whiteline's eccentric rear bushings are similar to these. I can second that these might be more difficult to adjust, hence slightly cheaper cost is eaten by more pay for doing alignment work, even more so, multiplied by future potential realigning times.
Legal reasons might be valid reason for choosing these over LCAs though. But imho worth double checking, as if adjustable LCAs are not MOT legal, will eccentric bushings be legal? BTW, from what i inquired where i live, in Latvia, adjustable LCAs also were not allowed .. but there is one but .. Whiteline/Eibach/SPC lca-s look almost exactly the same as stock stamped steel LCAs, just have extra adjusting bolt with eccentric washer on one end. Imho there is large chance thus for such LCA to go through MOT unnoticed . IIRC SPC one was even in same black color as stock's. At least i already went through two MOTs with SPC LCAs in rear. Not sure if it will be of same passing odds in Germany (i'd ask/check local german subaru forums, as for example IIRC imprezas also can use these very same LCAs for gaining rear camber adjustability), but who knows?

[JIM THEO]

OEM bolt part number for this arm bush is 901000110 (M12X1,25 65mm) so if you can find a front camber bolt replacement you could try it, cost is minimal as alignment range, if you want more than 2 degrees camber you need lower control arms!

[Nickmann]

Originally Posted by churchx

Whiteline's eccentric rear bushings are similar to these. I can second that these might be more difficult to adjust, hence slightly cheaper cost is eaten by more pay for doing alignment work, even more so, multiplied by future potential realigning times.
Legal reasons might be valid reason for choosing these over LCAs though. But imho worth double checking, as if adjustable LCAs are not MOT legal, will eccentric bushings be legal? BTW, from what i inquired where i live, in Latvia, adjustable LCAs also were not allowed .. but there is one but .. Whiteline/Eibach/SPC lca-s look almost exactly the same as stock stamped steel LCAs, just have extra adjusting bolt with eccentric washer on one end. Imho there is large chance thus for such LCA to go through MOT unnoticed . IIRC SPC one was even in same black color as stock's. At least i already went through two MOTs with SPC LCAs in rear. Not sure if it will be of same passing odds in Germany (i'd ask/check local german subaru forums, as for example IIRC imprezas also can use these very same LCAs for gaining rear camber adjustability), but who knows?

Thank you for your response. Do I understand you right, that the Whiteline bushings are easier to adjust compared to These Superpro bushings? Or do you mean, that the Superpro bushings are easier to asjust? If you meant the Whitelines are easier/better to adjust, do you have a part number of them for me?

In fact, I also thought about taking the SPC LCAs, since there are truly not that conspicuous. But...there are a lot more expensive than the bushings. So I would still stick to the bushings for the moment (which aren't legal in Germany as well, but even more inconspicuous than the SPC LCAs).

Originally Posted by JIM THEO

OEM bolt part number for this arm bush is 901000110 (M12X1,25 65mm) so if you can find a front camber bolt replacement you could try it, cost is minimal as alignment range, if you want more than 2 degrees camber you need lower control arms!

Also here thanks a lot, but I am not sure if I understood this correct, too. You mean I should insert this bolt to this place, where this new bushings on the LCA are supposed to be installed and save my money before buying those bushings? But will this bolt stay in place forever? I think the bushings would be a bit more secure I would say.

[churchx]

No. That whiteline bushings are similar product and similar PITA to align with, you also need to unbolt, turn bushing, retighten again, and also with car not weighting on it i guess.
What IS easier to adjust are adjustable LCAs. BTW, those stock-alike stamped steel aftermarket LCAs are not THAT expensive vs bushings unlike aluminium billet ones. Eg. SPC $229 vs whiteline bushing $152. Those extra $77 may soon be lost in extra time spent dialing alignment on alignment rig. (BTW, if one is getting SPC LCA, i suggest leaving stock toe bushings instead of ones in set with these). But i won't blindly suggest 100% to go with LCAs though. I don't live in Germany and i have no clue how anal are or aren't MOT checks there. If those stock-alike LCAs may pass .. i'd better ask in some local subaru forums

P.S. BTW, if camberbolts are such no-no @DE but eccentric bushings can be used .. i'd more think of them in front. After all, rear camber even on stock car/alignment is around -1.2degrees. It's front stock camber of 0degrees that i'd wish to rise more, for less understeer-ish grip bias tuning vs stock. From non-camber alternatives i'd consider powerflex PFF69-801G bushings for front LCA-s + maybe these topmounts. I have these PF bushings but cannot yet comment on these topmounts, as no own experience with them.

[jamal]

Those bushings go in the upper a-arms, not the LCAs btw. Just removing the stock arms is kind of a hassle- the inner mounts are difficult to reach. Lowering the whole crossmember helps.

[JIM THEO]

Originally Posted by jamal

Those bushings go in the upper a-arms, not the LCAs btw. Just removing the stock arms is kind of a hassle- the inner mounts are difficult to reach. Lowering the whole crossmember helps.

No those are the lower control arms internal bushes!

Originally Posted by Nickmann

Also here thanks a lot, but I am not sure if I understood this correct, too. You mean I should insert this bolt to this place, where this new bushings on the LCA are supposed to be installed and save my money before buying those bushings? But will this bolt stay in place forever? I think the bushings would be a bit more secure I would say.

I mean exactly this, to use a pair of appropriate size front camber bolts in the place of rear bolts that tighten the bushes, they secure the same exactly way as bushes do so there is no difference at all, if camber bolts turn during hard cornering the same can happen with eccentric bushes!

[finch1750]

I have the Whiteline rear UCA camber bushings. They are a huge pain to install (you need a shop to do it) and a pain to align. They do however greatly improve the feel in the rear end but also add a noticeable amount of NVH.

If I were you I would lower the car, set the front camber, and see how it feels with the rear camber falling where it does just from lowering.


What is the intended use for your car? daily driver, track, etc?

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by JIM THEO

No those are the lower control arms internal bushes!

The LCA would only need 2 bushings, not 4. Maybe we need a part number from OP

[jamal]

And yes the whiteline offset upper arm busings are a little easier to adjust. Looking at these super pros

https://superpro.com.au/find/superpr...999501126/vid-

which, yes go in the upper arms, I don't even see how you would adjust them. You'd have to decide where you want the offset facing before you put them in and then it seems the whole arm would have to come back out to turn them.

The whiteline offset sleeve is threaded, so you put a bolt into it to turn the adjustment, and then a nut locks it down

https://www.whiteline.com.au/product...CA326&sq=22666

still a hassle to get in there but you can at least adjust them in the car.

As far as the LCA goes, I'd guess there is an SPC etc camber bolt that will fit in there but I would be a little more wary of using a smaller fastener in that spot. SPC 81240 fits in 10mm holes, 81250 in 12.

[churchx]

Camberbolts for rear CA? While not directly listed as made for, seems that H&R TC112 or TC212 camberbolts might be used for rear camber adjustment for rear. But range very small (+/-0.5dg), so mostly such option can be considered just to even out, not dial in much more. And probably even more so won't fit for OP, when hearing his concerns about DE MOT legality.

[JIM THEO]

Originally Posted by finch1750

The LCA would only need 2 bushings, not 4. Maybe we need a part number from OP

Actually he posted wrong image although he is refereed to lower control arm bushings:

"Due to the fact, that in Germany adjustable LCAs are not legal, I was looking for special eccentric bushings to making the LCAs adjustable. There are some from Superpro available, like these"

Those are that I have in my car:
http://scoobyworld.co.uk/catalog/pro...oducts_id=3603

They are blue so different from OEM bushes, add less than a degree of camber and are very difficult to align (although they add some stiffness/precision to the arm), that's why I'd try camber bolts in lower arm bushings.
Camber bolts increase rear camber enough for road use, lock exactly the same way with eccentric bushes and aren't visible, otherwise LCAs are necessary!

[Nickmann]

Originally Posted by JIM THEO

Actually he posted wrong image although he is refereed to lower control arm bushings:

"Due to the fact, that in Germany adjustable LCAs are not legal, I was looking for special eccentric bushings to making the LCAs adjustable. There are some from Superpro available, like these"

Those are that I have in my car:
http://scoobyworld.co.uk/catalog/pro...oducts_id=3603

They are blue so different from OEM bushes, add less than a degree of camber and are very difficult to align (although they add some stiffness/precision to the arm), that's why I'd try camber bolts in lower arm bushings.
Camber bolts increase rear camber enough for road use, lock exactly the same way with eccentric bushes and aren't visible, otherwise LCAs are necessary!

You're completly right, I was thinking about those bushings in your link and they are meant to get in the lower control arms.

I'm also thinking about your camberbolt-solution, but I'm wondering why no other BRZ/FRS/86-Driver recommends me that before. Could there be any disadvantages with this solution? Seems to be the best idea to get the desired camber specs I want with a small price, easy installing and easy adjustment - there must be something wrong with it, sounds to good to be true!

And regarding to the SPC LCAs: Since the bushings are about 120$ in Germany comparing to about 240$ for the LCAs, the gap is big enough for thinking about staying to the bushings.
And don't have the SPCs also have eccentric bushings to adjust the camber?

(@ finch) By the way, my preferences are like the following: I want to have a similar driving behaviours like stock after lowering my car but with a bit less understeering.
No trackdays, the 'wildest' things I do are sometimes taking mountain roads or hitting a parking lot by doing Donuts and small slides and drifts.


Thank you guys altogether so far! BTW: How can I leave a 'official' thank you here? Haven't seen a button for this.