Gt2259 smaller turbo better torque - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

-Willis-86touge · 03-25-2016, 12:07 AM

Most people will never get over the 300whp mark because they will by a kit and be happy!! If the do go up probably 95% of those will never get above 400whp because it caust to much to build the engine.

So I was curious about the wrx turbo(gt2259)! I understand we have high compression. But I also have looke at a bunch of turbo/supercharger graphs and have noticed how are torque seams to peak higher in the rpms which leave us with a gutless car in the lower rpms. I wish I could post a pic but for some reason I can't get it to work! The wrx on the gt2259 and e85 makes great low and midrange torque, but suffers in the high rpms. Still graphs show nearly 275lbs around the 3000rpm range where are car wouldn't see it till aroun 5000rpms. The peak hp is only about 275 as well compared to let's say 330 hp on a normal boosted frs.

My question is would this make are cars a lot funner and less gutless. Allowing better driving experience. The same wrx has been down the track in like 12.5 sec. Not sure what are car around 350 hp would do. But the old saying is "torque wins races"

By the way I'm not in it for the drag just posting a time for comparison. I am wanting a car that has the power when I need it not just on a dyno graph!!! Also to point out there are many races on YouTube that show to identical hp rating for let's say a frs and wrx and the wrx pulls on the frs. Any thought I'm just curious?!?

Northwest86 · 03-25-2016, 12:21 AM

The FA20dit is a worse engine overall. The reason it makes so much torque is because of the different gearing. The wrx turbo might work somewhat but it is pretty small. Locally we have kits with turbos based upon GTX28 series Garrets but heavily modified. These turbos on the kit we run makes full boost at around 2500 rpm and holds till redline. The reason why so many turbos are gutless down low is because of inefficiency and lack of response. This can be fixed if designed correctly though.

-Willis-86touge · 03-25-2016, 12:33 AM

Yes I understand that too I finally got a post up with a stock wrx dyno up top and this dyno is done by ptuning and is probably the best dyno I have seen for are car for daily driving! But if you notice how the wrx has more torque down low!! Also just wondering how are numbers would be compared to the wrx seeing how we have a higher compression to start with. As for the gearing ratio I believe the wrx only has a 4.11 gear and are are I be live 4.10 so there's not much difference there

zkv476 · 03-25-2016, 12:44 AM

Our motors are 12.5 CR. That precludes us from running a lot of boost to begin with. We have better heads and better overall motor, but the CR is the limiting factor for boost. Doesn't matter if you get a fast spooling small turbo if you're going to wastegate it at 8 psi, the 1.9 CR difference won't make up the fact that the FA20F runs 16 psi.

I built my motor with a 10:1 CR and at the moment 16 psi out of an EFR 6758 as early as the turbo can do, single scroll only, and let me just say it's quite punchy even at 3500 rpm haha. Tuned myself on the street though, so no dyno plots to share unfortunately.

-Willis-86touge · 03-25-2016, 12:49 AM

On e85 are motor can run roughly 14 to 16 psi??

-Willis-86touge · 03-25-2016, 01:08 AM

And here's one posted for a c38 supercharger so it has highe boost and running e85, like I said the hp is good but the torque is lacking.

Northwest86 · 03-25-2016, 01:35 AM

They also have gearboxes. Driving a WRX in 4th is like driving ours in 5th. From everything I've experienced my cars quicker than a WRX. Everywhere. Hell around the track it keeps up with the porsche club. The little twin scroll that the WRX runs would possibly be to small. And you'd have to modify it since the wastegate is set for 16 psi or something isn't it? You'll find that the WRX pulls on FRS's on videos is because of people inflating dyno numbers and response. 95% of the turbo kits out for the 86 suck in the sense that they could be so much better. Below is a stock WRX with a tune. This is a tuner that doesn't fudge numbers and pretty much has the lowest reading dyno numbers I've ever said. That said they are faster than other cars because he doesn't inflate numbers, focuses on reliability and doesn't care about the E-penis factor that is online dyno numbers. If you want this car to be great as a daily or track car with excellent throttle response you want a Water to Air intercooler, GTX28 turbo and a cast manifold. It'll make peak boost at around 2500 rpm and hold it to redline. Or you can get a front mount Intercooler, High mount Turbo GTX3071R and stainless manifold and sit around all day for the turbo to spool and just end up melting everything. Frankly though roll or drag racing means about as much as a dyno number. Go to a track and then show me who has the better car. Or hell, don't even care at all.

Northwest86 · 03-25-2016, 01:41 AM

And note the blue line in the pic I posted before is the Stock MY15 WRX tune. The run was pulled out of because it detonates excessively in some cases. For a super responsive 86 you want something like this. An EBC would make it even better too.

CSG Mike · 03-25-2016, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northwest86

The FA20dit is a worse engine overall. The reason it makes so much torque is because of the different gearing. The wrx turbo might work somewhat but it is pretty small. Locally we have kits with turbos based upon GTX28 series Garrets but heavily modified. These turbos on the kit we run makes full boost at around 2500 rpm and holds till redline. The reason why so many turbos are gutless down low is because of inefficiency and lack of response. This can be fixed if designed correctly though.

The WRX is geared taller than the FRS/BRZ/86

-Willis-86touge · 03-25-2016, 01:46 AM

Transmission ratios (x:1) 1st-3.454, 2nd-1.947, 3rd-1.296, 4th-0.972, 5th-0.780, 6th-0.666
Wrx

FR-S Gear Ratio Comparison
____AT ___MT __# differenc _% difference
1 _3.626 __3.538 __0.088 ____2%
2 _2.188 __2.06 ___0.128 ____6%
3 _1.541 __1.404 __0.137 ____10%
4 _1.213 __1 ______0.213 ____21%
5 _1 ______0.713 __0.287 ____40%
6 _0.767 __0.582 __0.185 ____32%
R _3.437 __3.168 __0.269 ____8%

sorry to push button bro I just have sum thing stuck in my head and trying to sort it out. Is you dyno graph for a frs or wrx?

-Willis-86touge · 03-25-2016, 01:49 AM

Sorry just say wrx

Northwest86 · 03-25-2016, 01:52 AM

Yep that it is. I did post that above somewhere. What I should say is that gearing, dynos on each day, internal differences, boost levels etc make it produce more torque. Chucking that turbo on a FA20 would not make it magically produce the same numbers as a FA20DIT. Rather it'd be a FA20 with a small turbo.

-Willis-86touge · 03-25-2016, 01:52 AM

And was it on e85? The graph I show was e85.

Northwest86 · 03-25-2016, 01:53 AM

Oh and by the way if memory serves me right the AT vs MT list was actually back to front. my Car sure as hell doesn't do 240 or something in 4th.

03-25-2016, 12:07 AM	#1
-Willis-86touge Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Drives: Stock Location: Arkansas Posts: 206 Thanks: 52 Thanked 48 Times in 33 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Gt2259 smaller turbo better torque Most people will never get over the 300whp mark because they will by a kit and be happy!! If the do go up probably 95% of those will never get above 400whp because it caust to much to build the engine. So I was curious about the wrx turbo(gt2259)! I understand we have high compression. But I also have looke at a bunch of turbo/supercharger graphs and have noticed how are torque seams to peak higher in the rpms which leave us with a gutless car in the lower rpms. I wish I could post a pic but for some reason I can't get it to work! The wrx on the gt2259 and e85 makes great low and midrange torque, but suffers in the high rpms. Still graphs show nearly 275lbs around the 3000rpm range where are car wouldn't see it till aroun 5000rpms. The peak hp is only about 275 as well compared to let's say 330 hp on a normal boosted frs. My question is would this make are cars a lot funner and less gutless. Allowing better driving experience. The same wrx has been down the track in like 12.5 sec. Not sure what are car around 350 hp would do. But the old saying is "torque wins races" By the way I'm not in it for the drag just posting a time for comparison. I am wanting a car that has the power when I need it not just on a dyno graph!!! Also to point out there are many races on YouTube that show to identical hp rating for let's say a frs and wrx and the wrx pulls on the frs. Any thought I'm just curious?!? Attached Images Last edited by -Willis-86touge; 03-25-2016 at 12:22 AM.

03-25-2016, 12:33 AM	#3
-Willis-86touge Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Drives: Stock Location: Arkansas Posts: 206 Thanks: 52 Thanked 48 Times in 33 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Yes I understand that too I finally got a post up with a stock wrx dyno up top and this dyno is done by ptuning and is probably the best dyno I have seen for are car for daily driving! But if you notice how the wrx has more torque down low!! Also just wondering how are numbers would be compared to the wrx seeing how we have a higher compression to start with. As for the gearing ratio I believe the wrx only has a 4.11 gear and are are I be live 4.10 so there's not much difference there Attached Images

03-25-2016, 12:44 AM	#4
zkv476 Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Drives: 2014 SWP BRZ, MT Location: New Jersey Posts: 240 Thanks: 11 Thanked 140 Times in 90 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Our motors are 12.5 CR. That precludes us from running a lot of boost to begin with. We have better heads and better overall motor, but the CR is the limiting factor for boost. Doesn't matter if you get a fast spooling small turbo if you're going to wastegate it at 8 psi, the 1.9 CR difference won't make up the fact that the FA20F runs 16 psi. I built my motor with a 10:1 CR and at the moment 16 psi out of an EFR 6758 as early as the turbo can do, single scroll only, and let me just say it's quite punchy even at 3500 rpm haha. Tuned myself on the street though, so no dyno plots to share unfortunately. __________________ The answer is racecar. Always.

03-25-2016, 01:08 AM	#6
-Willis-86touge Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Drives: Stock Location: Arkansas Posts: 206 Thanks: 52 Thanked 48 Times in 33 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	And here's one posted for a c38 supercharger so it has highe boost and running e85, like I said the hp is good but the torque is lacking. Attached Images

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03-25-2016, 12:21 AM	#2
Northwest86 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Drives: Velocity Orange 86 GT Location: Australia Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 71 Times in 55 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The FA20dit is a worse engine overall. The reason it makes so much torque is because of the different gearing. The wrx turbo might work somewhat but it is pretty small. Locally we have kits with turbos based upon GTX28 series Garrets but heavily modified. These turbos on the kit we run makes full boost at around 2500 rpm and holds till redline. The reason why so many turbos are gutless down low is because of inefficiency and lack of response. This can be fixed if designed correctly though.

03-25-2016, 12:49 AM	#5
-Willis-86touge Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Drives: Stock Location: Arkansas Posts: 206 Thanks: 52 Thanked 48 Times in 33 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	On e85 are motor can run roughly 14 to 16 psi??

03-25-2016, 01:35 AM	#7
Northwest86 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Drives: Velocity Orange 86 GT Location: Australia Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 71 Times in 55 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	They also have gearboxes. Driving a WRX in 4th is like driving ours in 5th. From everything I've experienced my cars quicker than a WRX. Everywhere. Hell around the track it keeps up with the porsche club. The little twin scroll that the WRX runs would possibly be to small. And you'd have to modify it since the wastegate is set for 16 psi or something isn't it? You'll find that the WRX pulls on FRS's on videos is because of people inflating dyno numbers and response. 95% of the turbo kits out for the 86 suck in the sense that they could be so much better. Below is a stock WRX with a tune. This is a tuner that doesn't fudge numbers and pretty much has the lowest reading dyno numbers I've ever said. That said they are faster than other cars because he doesn't inflate numbers, focuses on reliability and doesn't care about the E-penis factor that is online dyno numbers. If you want this car to be great as a daily or track car with excellent throttle response you want a Water to Air intercooler, GTX28 turbo and a cast manifold. It'll make peak boost at around 2500 rpm and hold it to redline. Or you can get a front mount Intercooler, High mount Turbo GTX3071R and stainless manifold and sit around all day for the turbo to spool and just end up melting everything. Frankly though roll or drag racing means about as much as a dyno number. Go to a track and then show me who has the better car. Or hell, don't even care at all.

03-25-2016, 01:41 AM	#8
Northwest86 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Drives: Velocity Orange 86 GT Location: Australia Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 71 Times in 55 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	And note the blue line in the pic I posted before is the Stock MY15 WRX tune. The run was pulled out of because it detonates excessively in some cases. For a super responsive 86 you want something like this. An EBC would make it even better too.

03-25-2016, 01:46 AM	#10
-Willis-86touge Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Drives: Stock Location: Arkansas Posts: 206 Thanks: 52 Thanked 48 Times in 33 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Transmission ratios (x:1) 1st-3.454, 2nd-1.947, 3rd-1.296, 4th-0.972, 5th-0.780, 6th-0.666 Wrx FR-S Gear Ratio Comparison ____AT ___MT __# differenc _% difference 1 _3.626 __3.538 __0.088 ____2% 2 _2.188 __2.06 ___0.128 ____6% 3 _1.541 __1.404 __0.137 ____10% 4 _1.213 __1 ______0.213 ____21% 5 _1 ______0.713 __0.287 ____40% 6 _0.767 __0.582 __0.185 ____32% R _3.437 __3.168 __0.269 ____8% sorry to push button bro I just have sum thing stuck in my head and trying to sort it out. Is you dyno graph for a frs or wrx?

03-25-2016, 01:49 AM	#11
-Willis-86touge Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Drives: Stock Location: Arkansas Posts: 206 Thanks: 52 Thanked 48 Times in 33 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Sorry just say wrx

03-25-2016, 01:52 AM	#12
Northwest86 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Drives: Velocity Orange 86 GT Location: Australia Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 71 Times in 55 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Yep that it is. I did post that above somewhere. What I should say is that gearing, dynos on each day, internal differences, boost levels etc make it produce more torque. Chucking that turbo on a FA20 would not make it magically produce the same numbers as a FA20DIT. Rather it'd be a FA20 with a small turbo.

03-25-2016, 01:53 AM	#14
Northwest86 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Drives: Velocity Orange 86 GT Location: Australia Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 71 Times in 55 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Oh and by the way if memory serves me right the AT vs MT list was actually back to front. my Car sure as hell doesn't do 240 or something in 4th.

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