Purchase Decision: FR-S v BRZ

[Wicked Wookiee]

(Sorry in advance for all the text, just giving you a full background)

I have been a german car enthusiast for over a decade, but 2 kids, a track day addiction, and other hobbies are cutting into my budget for car purchases. So, that is what initially attracted me to the FT86: affordable sports car with potential affordable future modifications.

I have been tracking my '05 Audi S4 for about 3 years now and the more I work on the car to make it more track capable the more I realize how expensive it is on this car. Then I step back and realize the S4, while a great daily driver, isn't optimal for race tracks in the first place (even modified... unless heavily modified). This is the second reason I took the route of searching for a light weight, modifiable car. Obviously, I looked at used cars first, and there are many capable machines out there. Then a year or so ago I heard about the FT86 in development. I started visiting these forums and got excited over seeing a car that is nimble being developed again. I still didn't consider purchasing yet because I really wasn't looking to put a new car on the track.

Fast forward to the last week. I continue to track the S4 and keep an eye out for a used rx-7, 350z, r32, etc. But the twin FT-86s are always in the back of my mind. So, I visited a Subaru dealership and asked to at least see and sit in, if not test drive a BRZ. The sales person said we don't have any, but even if we did all I could do is let you sit in it. We don't allow test drives. Okay, that was weird. I'm 40 years old, so it's not like I am a teenager coming in to just screw around. I understand not wanting to put miles on these cars but it's hard to make a decision as a consumer without driving it. I give the sales person my name and number to give me a call when they get one in so I can at least see it. They expect one in the next couple weeks.

So, with that I drive to a Toyota dealer to look at the FR-S. They have three on the lot, all of which are sold but I can at least look at them. Wow, I have to say I love the size (or lack there of). This is what I am looking for. I want something this agile for the track. But a new car on the track?? Well, I give this guy my info too and he says he will actually give me a test drive when they get an automatic in, because they tend to not be sold immediately.

I have been spending my spare time thinking this over. I want to lease the FR-S or BRZ for a couple years. I get to enjoy it on the weekends, then if a new higher performance version is developed in the next couple of years I can get it without a problem (financially). Or, if reliable mods come out I could just keep it and mod it for the track. Obviously this leaves me with the S4 still for track days (short-term), but that is fine I still have plenty to learn anyway and seat time in anything is good.

I just can't decide what to get the FR-S or BRZ. I likely will not get to test drive both. So, for those of you who have driven both, what do you recommend for eventual use on the track?

Also, on average, how long does it take to get one after you place an order?

Thanks, and sorry for the rambling, but this has been on my mind lately and I decided to just pour it all out.

[Hawaiian]

If you want one now with an upgrade in a few years get a frs first then switch to the brz on a later model. Once enough brz hit the stores you will be able to get them below msrp unlike the FR-S.

[switchlanez]

This might give you some insight.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf-6rLVeR2o"]Scion FRS vs. Subaru BRZ on Track - Everyday Driver- YouTube[/ame]

[zombie]

I originally was obsessed with getting a Suburu, but that was purely based on brand prejudice (in my mind, buying a Scion was like buying Wranglers instead of Levi's, I really wish they'd sold the FR-S as a Toyota). The more I read and studied, the less of a difference it made as the differences between the two models was negligible in my mind.

Everything that makes the Suburu a Suburu can be changed with the Scion and the only true difference between the cars is the badging. The Scion's are more readily available and I've found the dealers are easier to work with.

I think it really comes down to your perception and if you can live with a Scion badge instead of a Suburu badge. It's like buying a Ford instead of a Lincoln, or an Infiniti instead of a Nissan. If the badge means that much to you, then you probably won't be happy with the Scion...if it doesn't mean that much, then get whatever makes more sense to you.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[robo_robb]

I was split between the BRZ and FR-S for quite some time. The only deciding factors were dealer location and if there was a markup. I wound up going to the local Toyota dealer.

If you don't care about frivolities such as NAV, HID, push button start, climate control, or brand, get the Scion. FR-S is simpler; just get in and enjoy the drive. Still, the cars are essentially the same when driven. The only difference is that the BRZ has suspension tuned to make it feel more like how Subaru thinks their cars should handle, i.e., slightly less tail happy than the FR-S. The FR-S retains the original handling philosophy that Toyota envisioned with the car.

The FR-S starts at about $1,000 less than the BRZ, and Scion dealers are less likely to charge mark-up.

Bottom line is, the similarities greatly outnumber the differences. Most differences are superficial. The only real mechanical difference is the VERY slight suspension tweaks.

[switchlanez]

It depends on if you care for HIDs, fog lights, push button start, navigation, heated Alcantara/leather seats and mirrors, a trunk lid liner/sound deadening, and functional rear spoiler all of which come factory installed only on the BRZ (Limited gets all, Premium gets some). You can modify the FR-S to have these things but when you add it all up, the BRZ gives you more content than you'd expect for its price difference above an FR-S.

As for track differences, the FR-S has a stiffer rear suspension and softer front end (more elaboration in that video I posted above). The BRZ is probably a few pounds heavier with its add-ons.

[Turbowned]

They all already said it, but it depends on whether or not you want all the extra features. I'm also coming out of an Audi S4, albeit a brand new one that I don't track. I have a bare bones Toyota MR2 for the track. I chose the BRZ Limited because I want the added creature comforts to make my daily commute better, while losing about 1,100lbs of weight (and a lot of horsepower, oh well) for a more involving driving experience.

[Oriental Life]

If you like nicer interior (and after S4 Audi you probably will), get BRZ. If you don't care and want a track car (primary purpose) with ocasional DD functions - FR-S.

Simple. Its the same car:

FR-S (basic trim)->BRZ Premium Trim->BRZ Limited Trim

[Razz]

If you plan on upgrading items for the track it doesn't make a difference as you will be buying coilovers bushings etc...

If you don't upgrade and only do tires wheels and pads, then get the BRZ

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

This might give you some insight.

Stock tires and automatic BRZ though... put some grippy highest level street tires or actual DOT-R tires on an otherwise stock FRS and it comes ALIVE! More rear stability + increased grip compared to stock tires along with great feel of the chassis balance - rear end is absolutely planted but telepathically controllable and responsive (minimal steering input required). I think if both were driven on actual tires designed for track duty it would be FR-S all the way; I have never driven a BRZ though...

Just don't forget to turn all systems off though - ABS kicking in is super annoying (and completely unnecessary) with sticky tires as is the occasional drop in power.

[ichitaka05]

So make sure I get what you're saying correctly. You want FR-S or BRZ that'll eventually become a track car... right?

Then go w FR-S, simple as that.

Why spent extra $ that has DCC, PSB or other feather that isn't necessary for the track? Use that $ to upgrade suspension or other mods.

[Chewie4299]

Originally Posted by Wicked Wookiee

(Sorry in advance for all the text, just giving you a full background)

I have been a german car enthusiast for over a decade, but 2 kids, a track day addiction, and other hobbies are cutting into my budget for car purchases. So, that is what initially attracted me to the FT86: affordable sports car with potential affordable future modifications.

I have been tracking my '05 Audi S4 for about 3 years now and the more I work on the car to make it more track capable the more I realize how expensive it is on this car. Then I step back and realize the S4, while a great daily driver, isn't optimal for race tracks in the first place (even modified... unless heavily modified). This is the second reason I took the route of searching for a light weight, modifiable car. Obviously, I looked at used cars first, and there are many capable machines out there. Then a year or so ago I heard about the FT86 in development. I started visiting these forums and got excited over seeing a car that is nimble being developed again. I still didn't consider purchasing yet because I really wasn't looking to put a new car on the track.

Fast forward to the last week. I continue to track the S4 and keep an eye out for a used rx-7, 350z, r32, etc. But the twin FT-86s are always in the back of my mind. So, I visited a Subaru dealership and asked to at least see and sit in, if not test drive a BRZ. The sales person said we don't have any, but even if we did all I could do is let you sit in it. We don't allow test drives. Okay, that was weird. I'm 40 years old, so it's not like I am a teenager coming in to just screw around. I understand not wanting to put miles on these cars but it's hard to make a decision as a consumer without driving it. I give the sales person my name and number to give me a call when they get one in so I can at least see it. They expect one in the next couple weeks.

So, with that I drive to a Toyota dealer to look at the FR-S. They have three on the lot, all of which are sold but I can at least look at them. Wow, I have to say I love the size (or lack there of). This is what I am looking for. I want something this agile for the track. But a new car on the track?? Well, I give this guy my info too and he says he will actually give me a test drive when they get an automatic in, because they tend to not be sold immediately.

I have been spending my spare time thinking this over. I want to lease the FR-S or BRZ for a couple years. I get to enjoy it on the weekends, then if a new higher performance version is developed in the next couple of years I can get it without a problem (financially). Or, if reliable mods come out I could just keep it and mod it for the track. Obviously this leaves me with the S4 still for track days (short-term), but that is fine I still have plenty to learn anyway and seat time in anything is good.

I just can't decide what to get the FR-S or BRZ. I likely will not get to test drive both. So, for those of you who have driven both, what do you recommend for eventual use on the track?

Also, on average, how long does it take to get one after you place an order?

Thanks, and sorry for the rambling, but this has been on my mind lately and I decided to just pour it all out.

Everyone else has said what I would have said. It all came down to the way I was treated and vehicle availability. My local Toyota dealership is where my family has purchased 8 Toyotas. They didn't end up being as flexible on my trade but they rocked my world with an amazing deal in the finance office.

Also, I want your avatar.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Bonburner]

Congrats on the FR-S!
I've been loving the car so far :]
excited for future mods ~

[Wicked Wookiee]

Well, what everyone is saying is consistent and goes with my gut feeling. I don't care about the interior since it will primarily be (eventually) a track car. Heck some day I may gut the interior, who knows. The badging is not an issue either. 10 years ago I probably would say differently. But track events have shown me it's not the badge it's the monkey in the seat (well unless there is a huge hp differential, on a fast track).

I got a much better feeling from the Scion/Toyota dealer. The Subaru dealership wasn't friendly and they made me think like they were going to bend me over. The Toyota dealer was friendly and excited to tell me about the car. That's kind of the icing on the cake.

Thank you for the input everyone, and the video. Good stuff.

Now the tough part: convincing my wife it's a good idea to get an FR-S.

Hey Chewie! lol I made the avatar myself. Thanks. :happy0180: