Oil Pan Performance - What Features Do You Want?

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

Have you mounted the engine fitted with a spacer into a car yet?

Here are some pics. Some additional tweaking, but close to where I want to be on this...





One thing that doesn't work with the spacer is the Fumoto Valve So we either do a custom access plate in the belly pan, stick with the stock plug, or try one of the adjustable Fumoto Valves.

Originally Posted by LateOnTheBrakes

I saw the oil pickup prefilter video on YouTube. Beta testing in January?

That is still the plan.

Originally Posted by LateOnTheBrakes

The spacer would be interesting if it was machined for a captured o-ring on both sides to eliminate the need for rtv.

No can do on that one. Maybe on the block side, but definitely no go on the pan side. O-ring grooves work great on things that were made for them, but the pan is far too flimsy. Even at stock torque spec, the pan's flange lifts between the bolt holes. The tighter you go, the worse it gets.

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

What about the spacer?

Need any headers sent in?

I think we're good on that front. Assuming if we clear the OEM heat shields, we should be good for most headers. When the time comes, we'll likely just buy headers. We'd eventually need then for header testing anyway

[LateOnTheBrakes]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

On an engine, yes. On an engine in a chassis, not yet, but soon.

We've laser scanned all the parts involved, so fitment should go smoothly on car, but you truly never know until you put them on.




The baffle and pre-filter are coming first. Ideally, were ready for beta testers in about 4 weeks. The pan is going to be further out. It's still early in the design phase. Plus, it will be a cast aluminum piece, and casting just takes f-o-r-e-v-e-r to get going initially. We do however typically make some rapid prototype castings for alpha and beta testing. We can usually get our hands on those in ~4 weeks once we're ready to pull the trigger on the final design.

I really hate to speculate on the pan release, but likely summer/fall.




I speculate that the spacer, baffle, and filter, should provide you with a decent improvement in oil control, until the pan is released. It's not going to be the upper echelon of performance that our pan should provide, but still a measurable improvement.




Our typical MO is to take everything we know, add the parameters from enthusiast feedback, like in this thread for example, and start there. Performance it prioritized over things like 'cooling' fins, but if the design has enough flexibility to do everything, that's what we'll try to do.

I'd like to see at least 6 quarts. From experience, we know the more oil the better. It drops engine oil temps, improves supply stability under severe lateral loads, and the oil condition is improved over time (more oil doing less work). It's always a balancing act. More oil does you no good if it's not controlled and you have starvation. So, you may trade some capacity for oil control features. On the headers, it's tough to make everyone happy. Typically, we start with a design based around OEM components on the engine, including OEM header with heat shields. For the most part this works with most mainstream headers. If one of the very popular headers does not fit, we'll typically make some adjustments to accommodate it. Again, it's a balancing act.

.

As far as beta testers go I lived in Waynesboro for years and I'm on the other side of the mountain in Charlottesville. I have a 2023 and wouldn't mind being a guinea pig. The car only has 2,000 miles at this point.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by LateOnTheBrakes

As far as beta testers go I lived in Waynesboro for years and I'm on the other side of the mountain in Charlottesville. I have a 2023 and wouldn't mind being a guinea pig. The car only has 2,000 miles at this point.

Always good to have local testers. You do track events also?

[LateOnTheBrakes]

I do autocross almost every weekend with three different organizations. Track days are fewer and further between but I HPDEs at VIR, Dominion, and Summit Point during the year. The next one on the calendar for me is next month at VIR.

[Code Monkey]

Can something like a UIDS be developed on the BRZ?

[nissanfanatic]

@KillerBMotorsport Since you have a lot of experience with EJ pans/setups, any insight on wny FA's in our cars tend to survive a bit better with lateral acceleration (or do they...?) from a pan design standpoint? Any notable differences in design choice? I kind of figured that EJ's may just die due to other reasons (high oil temps/low oil/etc) and it's lateral accel is blamed, but I have zero data/insight on it. Was just curious if Subaru actually did anything different in the pan or oil return from the heads.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey

Can something like a UIDS be developed on the BRZ?

If you redesigned the engine and headers, anything is possible, but within reason, no. The 911 and BRZ engines are like apples and bananas. Heck even the EJ engines compared to the FA are like apples and oranges. They are VERY different engines.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by nissanfanatic

@KillerBMotorsport Since you have a lot of experience with EJ pans/setups, any insight on wny FA's in our cars tend to survive a bit better with lateral acceleration (or do they...?) from a pan design standpoint? Any notable differences in design choice? I kind of figured that EJ's may just die due to other reasons (high oil temps/low oil/etc) and it's lateral accel is blamed, but I have zero data/insight on it. Was just curious if Subaru actually did anything different in the pan or oil return from the heads.

IMO, they survive better because they do not have boost. Plus, they are just very different engines with very different lubrication systems, especially from the sump standpoint. Each has up and downsides from a design perspective, but who knows which is better in stock form on such and such track. The safe bet here is that your results may vary.

As far as the FA goes, I don't like massive pressure drop that comes under some specific conditions (with or without an aftermarket "baffle" plate) that may or may not be that severe. This is one of our primary projects right now. I have my suspicions at this point, but I'm going to reserve that until we know for sure and have a solution for it.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

If you redesigned the engine and headers, anything is possible, but within reason, no. The 911 and BRZ engines are like apples and bananas. Heck even the EJ engines compared to the FA are like apples and oranges. They are VERY different engines.

Yep. I was about to say, "Sure, but no one is going to pay more than a new custom built shortblock for one."

Even just a "normal" dry sump setup is crazy expensive. Has anyone tested Accusumps on these?

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Has anyone tested Accusumps on these?

Yes, but don't get me going on Accusumps, I have a strong opinion on them

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

Yes, but don't get me going on Accusumps, I have a strong opinion on them

Guessing you're not a fan? I just remember a few friends years ago had Celica GT-S's and both ran Accusumps because to the lateral load on Hoosiers and high RPM's of those engines, 2ZZ I think?

[nissanfanatic]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

As far as the FA goes, I don't like massive pressure drop that comes under some specific conditions (with or without an aftermarket "baffle" plate) that may or may not be that severe. This is one of our primary projects right now. I have my suspicions at this point, but I'm going to reserve that until we know for sure and have a solution for it.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show....php?p=3552644

That one? It does seem oddly specific to right hand corners based on that video but also the drop seems to track with a lift off throttle. Would be interesting to have data of a WOT RH turn that pulls ~1g sustained for 2-3 seconds. That first turn starting at 0:21 is close but there is a slight lift at the end, but also subsequently a slight drop in oil pressure....

[Tr4ck_day]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

Yes, but don't get me going on Accusumps, I have a strong opinion on them

I wont ask you to type it out here, since I'm sure you have already gone over it a ton, but can you point me in the direction of a write up or comment you've done in the past on them? I'd love to hear your thoughts. I run one in my Honda track car and haven't had any issues before, but I respect your companies expertise.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Guessing you're not a fan?

I am not. I'm a much bigger fan of addressing why there's an oil pressure drop in the first place.

These band-aid devices provide not enough oil flow and re-charge at the worst possible time. Pick your poison; low oil pressure under several lateral load, or under maximum throttle application. I'll always pick lateral load.