follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > 2nd Gens: GR86 and BRZ > GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86)

GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-17-2022, 03:19 AM   #1
zeroomega
Member
 
zeroomega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: Supra MKV, FR-S
Location: Bay area, CA
Posts: 72
Thanks: 22
Thanked 67 Times in 27 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Oil pressure drops on race track in S corners

I did some data logging on oil pressure at Thunderhill West race track with a GR86 today and had some interesting(sad) discovery: the pressure seems to be quite steady at long sweep corners but drops significantly at fast S corners during load transitions. At TH west, the pressure drops significantly on 3 different locations on the track. (1) At T1 to T2 left to right transition; (2) T4 to T5 left to right transition; (3) T7-T8-T9 at hill top.

The pressure drop at T4 to T5 is the most severe one as the pressure dropped from around 60psi to 25psi for nearly 3 secs. While it is hard to tell if that is going to cause significant damage to the engine, but it is definitely not ideal. No wonder why Japanese GR86/BRZ cup recommends oil pan baffles. But at the same time, I am wondering how much these baffles could help as some designs seems to be blocking oil return flow.

The car was using GT Radial SX2 tires, which has similar grip (maybe even less grip) compared to the OEM PS4 tires. Except for the extra front camber, there is no other suspension mods. It is likely with stickier tires, the oil pressure drops could be more severe. Oil pressure sensor is installed at engine block oil galley port.

Overlaid video:


Thoughts?
zeroomega is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to zeroomega For This Useful Post:
Ash_89 (10-19-2022), jongers (01-15-2023), treedodger (10-18-2022)
Old 10-17-2022, 08:23 AM   #2
KillerBMotorsport
 
KillerBMotorsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: BRZ
Location: Virginia
Posts: 568
Thanks: 89
Thanked 709 Times in 324 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Do you have a logs with telemetry?

What you're seeing might be cause by a couple of different things. I'd like to see full logs showing oil pressure, oil temp, speed, RPM, AVCS L, AVCS R, throttle position and ideally the telemetry showing lateral loads in all direction.

It could be what's called Slosh. Most common in auto-x where there are rapid direction changes.

It does not sound like Surge which, is seen at sustained lateral loads.

It there are throttle/braking or RPM/load changes being made during in these particular sections of track, it could be due to 'normal' AVCS modulation. Not uncommon for EJs to lose 30+ psi under the right AVCS conditions.

Managing it (or not) best will depend on the cause.
KillerBMotorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to KillerBMotorsport For This Useful Post:
jongers (01-15-2023), raisingAnarchy (10-17-2022), Ultramaroon (01-14-2023), Wally86 (01-18-2023)
Old 10-17-2022, 12:26 PM   #3
Robertw
Senior Member
 
Robertw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Drives: 1996 Turbo Miata
Location: MA
Posts: 150
Thanks: 54
Thanked 92 Times in 48 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
The GR Cup cars are running Greddy oil pan baffles right?
Robertw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 02:12 PM   #4
KillerBMotorsport
 
KillerBMotorsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: BRZ
Location: Virginia
Posts: 568
Thanks: 89
Thanked 709 Times in 324 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
OK, so I missed the vid the first time around.

This thing does not like taking right hand turns. What was the oil level?

We're still new to the FA24 platform, but the engine configuration is typical of all Suby H-4 engines. IMO what you're seeing here is a combination of engine design and track elevation changes amplifying those conditions. The LH-Head is a few inches further back than the RH-Head. What that means is that under certain condition; Right had turn on throttle and/or elevation changes, allows oil to easily flow into that LH-Head.

Odd because it seems consistent and much more pronounced than I've ever seen on a stock-ish setup. This is why my first question in on oil level, because that would make sense here. Have you tried running a higher oil level. We've not tested the FA24 yet, but so far, the EJ engines are very tolerant of overfilling, by a quart without issue.

Your data and conditions may make you a good candidate for product testing
KillerBMotorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to KillerBMotorsport For This Useful Post:
timurrrr (10-17-2022), Wally86 (01-18-2023), x808drifter (10-18-2022)
Old 10-17-2022, 02:49 PM   #5
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: 2022 GR86
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 1,703
Thanks: 2,126
Thanked 1,291 Times in 714 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
This is why my first question in on oil level, because that would make sense here.
That was my first question as well.
He separately told me he was running oil at max.
__________________
Follow the build thread for my GR86!
timurrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 03:52 PM   #6
alex87f
Meow
 
alex87f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Drives: GT86, Volvo 996
Location: France
Posts: 528
Thanks: 311
Thanked 442 Times in 234 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Were we seeing similar drops on 1st gen cars?

Also, are the 2nd gens equipped with a proper pressure sensor or is this aftermarket?
alex87f is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 03:53 PM   #7
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: 2022 GR86
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 1,703
Thanks: 2,126
Thanked 1,291 Times in 714 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex87f View Post
Also, are the 2nd gens equipped with a proper pressure sensor or is this aftermarket?
No "proper" pressure sensor from the factory, this is aftermarket/DIY.
__________________
Follow the build thread for my GR86!
timurrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 03:59 PM   #8
zeroomega
Member
 
zeroomega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: Supra MKV, FR-S
Location: Bay area, CA
Posts: 72
Thanks: 22
Thanked 67 Times in 27 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Do you have a logs with telemetry?

What you're seeing might be cause by a couple of different things. I'd like to see full logs showing oil pressure, oil temp, speed, RPM, AVCS L, AVCS R, throttle position and ideally the telemetry showing lateral loads in all direction.

It could be what's called Slosh. Most common in auto-x where there are rapid direction changes.

It does not sound like Surge which, is seen at sustained lateral loads.

It there are throttle/braking or RPM/load changes being made during in these particular sections of track, it could be due to 'normal' AVCS modulation. Not uncommon for EJs to lose 30+ psi under the right AVCS conditions.

Managing it (or not) best will depend on the cause.
Please DM me your email address, I can send you the original AIM data logs. But I didn't log AVCS L /R since I haven't figure out the CAN ID for these values. If you know the CAN IDs, I can log them next time.

Oil is at full mark, I check it every session. Haven't consider overfilling it as I am concerned it will cause more issues than solving them.

There was a video in Chinese that a guy experienced oil pressure drop to around 4psi in similar esses corners. So I doubt the pressure drop I experienced are from AVCS.
zeroomega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 04:01 PM   #9
zeroomega
Member
 
zeroomega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: Supra MKV, FR-S
Location: Bay area, CA
Posts: 72
Thanks: 22
Thanked 67 Times in 27 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertw View Post
The GR Cup cars are running Greddy oil pan baffles right?
Did U.S. GR Cup mentioned they are using oil pan baffles? I only know Japan GR86/BRZ cup car has a proved list of baffles and Greddy one is one of them. However, I didn't see any test data proving these baffles improves the stability of oil pressures, that is why I am hesitate of installing one.
zeroomega is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to zeroomega For This Useful Post:
kevaughan (02-27-2024)
Old 10-17-2022, 04:01 PM   #10
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,078
Thanks: 18,024
Thanked 16,207 Times in 7,320 Posts
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex87f View Post
Were we seeing similar drops on 1st gen cars?

Also, are the 2nd gens equipped with a proper pressure sensor or is this aftermarket?
Yes, I have seen down into single digit on my first gen.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
timurrrr (10-18-2022)
Old 10-17-2022, 04:07 PM   #11
zeroomega
Member
 
zeroomega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: Supra MKV, FR-S
Location: Bay area, CA
Posts: 72
Thanks: 22
Thanked 67 Times in 27 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex87f View Post
Were we seeing similar drops on 1st gen cars?

Also, are the 2nd gens equipped with a proper pressure sensor or is this aftermarket?
I think someone mentioned gen1 has similar oil pressure drops. I didn't test it on my gen1 so I don't have any data to compare.

The oil pressure sensor is the "30-4407" 150psi AEM oil pressure gauge. Sensor installed to the block oil galley port. I use customized hardware to pass through the pressure data to an AIM Solo DL2 for data logging.
zeroomega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2022, 05:18 PM   #12
KillerBMotorsport
 
KillerBMotorsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: BRZ
Location: Virginia
Posts: 568
Thanks: 89
Thanked 709 Times in 324 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroomega View Post
Please DM me your email address,
sent and received. Will review and get back to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Yes, I have seen down into single digit on my first gen.
Same conditions? Do you have logs?

What are you doing to manage it?
KillerBMotorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to KillerBMotorsport For This Useful Post:
zeroomega (10-18-2022)
Old 10-18-2022, 05:23 PM   #13
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,078
Thanks: 18,024
Thanked 16,207 Times in 7,320 Posts
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
sent and received. Will review and get back to you.







Same conditions? Do you have logs?



What are you doing to manage it?
I have an innovate ssi-4 connected to an innovate logger and gauges but I haven't gotten it setup to properly read rpm and that project fell by the wayside while I deal with other things. I wanted to start logging it. Oil pan baffle going in this winter.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2022, 06:40 PM   #14
mpg9999
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Drives: 2022 BRZ
Location: VA
Posts: 13
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroomega View Post
I think someone mentioned gen1 has similar oil pressure drops. I didn't test it on my gen1 so I don't have any data to compare.

The oil pressure sensor is the "30-4407" 150psi AEM oil pressure gauge. Sensor installed to the block oil galley port. I use customized hardware to pass through the pressure data to an AIM Solo DL2 for data logging.
Would you mind sharing your exact datalogging setup? I'd love to capture some oil pressure data while autocrossing.
mpg9999 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AD08R tire pressure Drag Race pro_turbo Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack 0 11-13-2021 05:04 AM
Oil pressure drops to zero after a cold start? MINOCIN Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 24 07-10-2014 03:57 PM
Darren drops his phone onto the Formula D track... DarrenDriven Northwest 2 07-22-2013 04:30 AM
No Race Track Seats in Race Car Drivers Every Day Cars..!! JohnnyNight Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 24 10-16-2012 05:42 PM
FRS @ willow springs (1.8 mile race track with 12 corners) scionnut Southern California 7 08-04-2012 03:29 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.