New Owner Seeking Track Advice!

[Jamestl]

Hi everyone!

New member here. I got my FRS last weekend in Nashville and drove it back to Chicago. Very excited!

I’m a relative novice to the track (have about 5 track days under my belt in a prior NA Miata, was allowed on track alone under "blue" group) and wanted to get back in the game after about 6 years since my last track event. Idea for the car is to have it serve mostly track duty as I don’t drive much on a daily basis. Having said that, I don’t want to get too aggressive too early as I do want to learn the car and then upgrade as my skills improve. Here are my plans for the summer (planning about 6 track days) and would appreciate some assistance if you have some feedback:

1) Brake pads, fluids – I will swap for something more aggressive for both track and street , and switch to a track fluid to ensure I don’t have issues on track. Based on what I’ve read the stock brakes calipers + rotors should be sufficient until I get much faster or move toward track tires.

2) Tires – I had very good experience with the Star Spec I’s on the Miata so will likely use Z2*s based on feedback on the forums, etc.

3) Alignment - I'm considering a relatively mild alignment (e.g., without camber plates, just camber bolts).

So my questions are as follows for those who have more experience with the car and also with driving on track:

1) Oil cooler – I’ve read that oil can get pretty hot on track. Is this a necessity or a nice to have? I’m in Chicago so the tracks here shouldn’t be super hot vs. other parts of the country. If I need to get one it seems like the Perrin one has gotten favorable reviews.

2) Alignment – It sounds like I can get a little bit of camber relatively cheaply but if I need more than a couple of degrees I’ll need to get camber plates, LCAs, etc. Any thoughts on whether a relatively mild alignment will be sufficient or should I just go all the way for the sake of my tires?

3) Wheels – I don’t think I’ll ever go FI on the car so assuming I get better over time, what’s sort of the limit on tire width? This won’t be a race car so just wondering if my stock wheels are fine with a 225 tire, or whether I need to upgrade to something that holds a 245 tire. Also, do people move down to a 16 inch wheel to save on weight / cost?

4) Tune / Exhaust – It seems that a tune + headers/exhaust could eliminate part of the infamous torque dip and can add about 15ish hp. Should I be considering anything else from a power perspective? CAIs seem to get very little love around here, and I’m not sure what other power enhancers are reasonably priced & reliable.

5) General upgrades - Sway bars, bushings, master brake cylinder brace, etc. - are they worth the money spent?

And lastly, can someone help me better understand the progression in terms of potential upgrades?

1) When should I move to a wider or stickier tire?

2) When should I go with a different suspension (e.g., coilovers with more adjustability)

3) When should I consider racing seats / harnesses?

4) When should I upgrade the brakes to a system that can absorb more heat/abuse?

Anything else I may have missed? Appreciate all the help -- can't wait to get back out there!!!

[strat61caster]

We're at about the same level of track experience, but I started focusing on autox, sounds like you've got a good baseline experience and idea of where you want to go.

My 2 cents;
1. not totally necessary, go back and re-read the threads, picking up an OBD2 bluetooth adapter is probably a good idea to have at the track no matter what you decide (so your day isn't ruined by a check engine light) and you can use it to log oil temps yourself
2. I say camber bolts are fine, yeah you'll still chew up your front tire outer edge a bit but hey, figure out what you think the car needs to go faster instead of trusting everyone else, hell go completely stock before getting the camber bolts and burn up whatever tires are on the car now, Z2's are DD'able in summer weather (edit: camber plates, camber bolts, good tires and brakes has been my favorite setup so far on this car, I was runnning about -3 degrees camber up front and stock rear)
3. After putting on coilovers and 17x9 245 RE71R's for autox, you can certainly overpower them on a stock engine if you chuck it into a corner hard enough, but there's not much need to go over 225 if you're not chasing lap times. Just my preference I don't like the idea of 225's on 7" wheels, they look too pinched to me, 215's on the stock sized wheels for me, but if you pick up a set of track/summer wheels 225 on a 7.5" or 8" is pretty solid. Not many move down to 16" and tire options down there seem to be narrowing, most are happy with 17".
4. Spot on, if you're sticking to naturally aspirated, header, tune and E85 are the best bang for the buck, nothing else really surpasses 5hp gains (whilst spending a few hundred bucks to get that +4hp [advertised]) without spending crazy money (i.e. increasing displacement). If the power begins to bore you then you have to start weighing forced induction or just flat out changing cars imho.

For the last bits I'd say upgrade when your current equipment is insufficient, if you can trash a set of tires and brake pads in a matter of 3-4 track days odds are you're close to exceeding their capabilities, if you can identify the suspension is lacking in some way (riding the bumpstops, car gets upset when you do certain things, noticing you're having to wait for the car to settle in transitions) then I'd say go for the upgrade. I think you'll find some of the big improvements can come with alignment.

I don't think I'd ever change the seats and belts in this car unless it was getting gutted and having a roll cage put in, they hold you in place pretty damn well.

Threads of interest if you haven't seen them:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25485
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94608
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25494

[Robbie]

In my experience an oil cooler is a must have for track usage. It'll get you more full power laps and it'll make your engine happier.

I would at least get a set of camber plates that fit OEM springs from the start as the car wants at least 2.5 degrees of camber from the start.

I've run coilovers, 245/40/17 200 tw street tires on 17x9 wheels, oil cooler, and upgraded pads from the start as I wanted the adjustability and it makes the car fast and really fun on track along with reliable.

I don't see the need for upgraded brakes unless you want the bling or you plan on making significantly more power than stock.

Seats and harnesses are a good idea but must have a roll bar installed in order to make it safer than stock.

So my suggestion would be to take it on stock suspension with camber bolts and upgraded brakes and an oil cooler and see how you like it. Depending on your budget I'd get wheels, tires and coilovers next.

Safety stuff depends on how track oriented you want this car to be and how much risk you want to take on the track.

[Fish Eagle]

Here's my opinions - but others will tell you you differently.
You choose what advice to take... YMMV.

I've done 40+ track days of which about 10 have been competitive time attack events.

My car is Vortech supercharged, with catless exhaust, tune, and crash bolts - that's all.
My track wheels are 17x7.5, and I use Bridgestone RE11S semis 225/45R17.

In South Africa, our normal air temps are 25°C-35°C, and sometimes hotter.

To have a lot of (safe) fun on track for no wasted cost, this is what you need.

1. Brake fluid - essential, not negotiable, safety issue.
Use Endless RF650, Motul RBF660 or equivalent.

2. Brake pads - essential, not negotiable, safety issue.
You have different pads to us here in Africa, so do some research and choose a good track/road pad suitable for track days.

3. A little bit of professional instruction.

4. Lots of seat time.

That's it. You'll have a lot of safe fun, and you'll know when and where to upgrade your car, but don't be in a hurry to do that.
Focus on upgrading the squidgy organic part behind the steering wheel first.

IMO, you don't need suspension mods (OK, maybe crash bolts).
You don't need expensive wheels and tyres.
You don't need more power.
You don't need an oil cooler as long as you keep your sessions to 30 mins or less.

You do need patience, and the understanding that you have a lot to learn.
And the quickest, best, and safest way to get faster is to improve your driving skills, and that only happens with lots of seat time.
The key to getting that right and the first thing you need to learn - is that you need to believe that you have a lot to learn...

Enjoy!!

[Silver Supra]

Originally Posted by Fish Eagle

Here's my opinions - but others will tell you you differently.
You choose what advice to take... YMMV.

I've done 40+ track days of which about 10 have been competitive time attack events.

My car is Vortech supercharged, with catless exhaust, tune, and crash bolts - that's all.
My track wheels are 17x7.5, and I use Bridgestone RE11S semis 225/45R17.

In South Africa, our normal air temps are 25°C-35°C, and sometimes hotter.

To have a lot of (safe) fun on track for no wasted cost, this is what you need.

1. Brake fluid - essential, not negotiable, safety issue.
Use Endless RF650, Motul RBF660 or equivalent.

2. Brake pads - essential, not negotiable, safety issue.
You have different pads to us here in Africa, so do some research and choose a good track/road pad suitable for track days.

3. A little bit of professional instruction.

4. Lots of seat time.

That's it. You'll have a lot of safe fun, and you'll know when and where to upgrade your car, but don't be in a hurry to do that.
Focus on upgrading the squidgy organic part behind the steering wheel first.

IMO, you don't need suspension mods (OK, maybe crash bolts).
You don't need expensive wheels and tyres.
You don't need more power.
You don't need an oil cooler as long as you keep your sessions to 30 mins or less.

You do need patience, and the understanding that you have a lot to learn.
And the quickest, best, and safest way to get faster is to improve your driving skills, and that only happens with lots of seat time.
The key to getting that right and the first thing you need to learn - is that you need to believe that you have a lot to learn...

Enjoy!!

This is excellent advice. As noted -
Safety first. (brakes!)
Instruction second. (get an instructor any time you can)
Seat time third. (It takes a good while to be consistent)

I don't have an 86 yet, so I can't comment on car mods other than the above. I will say that even after 14 years of track days, I still like having an instructor ride with me at a new (to me) track and occasionally at ones I know well. I usually learn something.

[AndyBRZ]

Hi there,
I will try to help you with your questions. I have a heavily modified for the track BRZ and I have 20+ years of track driving experience in many rear wheel drive lightweight cars. I Love the Brz/Frs for sure.
1) Brake pads, fluids – I will swap for something more aggressive for both track and street , and switch to a track fluid to ensure I don’t have issues on track. Based on what I’ve read the stock brakes calipers + rotors should be sufficient until I get much faster or move toward track tires.
Reply: You are correct. In stock calipers you will melt the rubber boots so make sure you inspect them often. DBA 4000 rotors factory size are a great upgrade and Carbotech XP8 are great track pads. Use factory pads in the street if you stay stock calipers. Once you move up on stickier tires please consider upgrading calipers in the front. Look for good and balanced sets like the ones from Essex or StopTec.

2) Tires – I had very good experience with the Star Spec I’s on the Miata so will likely use Z2*s based on feedback on the forums, etc.
Reply: I would encourage you to start with pilot sports or other good summer performance tires so you learn. They will match your braking capabilities better if you stay stock with better pads. If you move to Star Spec or even RE71R or RS4's you will indeed the DBA/Carbotech setup I suggested in previous point.

3) Alignment - I'm considering a relatively mild alignment (e.g., without camber plates, just camber bolts).
Reply: Camber bolts would match the previous 2 suggested items but you will still wear tires in the outside.

4) Oil cooler – I’ve read that oil can get pretty hot on track. Is this a necessity or a nice to have? I’m in Chicago so the tracks here shouldn’t be super hot vs. other parts of the country. If I need to get one it seems like the Perrin one has gotten favorable reviews.
Reply you need it and you want the Jackson Racing one which is basically a SETRAB system.

5) Alignment – It sounds like I can get a little bit of camber relatively cheaply but if I need more than a couple of degrees I’ll need to get camber plates, LCAs, etc. Any thoughts on whether a relatively mild alignment will be sufficient or should I just go all the way for the sake of my tires?
Reply
-1.5 camber is not enough in the front.
I have coilovers with camber plates and drive with -3.2 in the front and -2.5 in the rear and finally I am wearing tires evenly. You need a little toe in the front depending on control arms and height. Contact me directly through IM if you want more technical info. I live in in Bolingbrook so feel free to text me at 630 561 9677 as well

6) Wheels – RPF1 17x8 with 32 mm offset. Use 245/R17/40 tires. Best bang for the buch light as a deader and strong as a Bull.

7) Tune / Exhaust – It seems that a tune + headers/exhaust could eliminate part of the infamous torque dip and can add about 15ish hp. Should I be considering anything else from a power perspective? CAIs seem to get very little love around here, and I’m not sure what other power enhancers are reasonably priced & reliable.
Reply:it is expensive but it does eliminate the torque dip. I run Delicious flex Tune with equal length headers and catless customer made exhaust all the way to the back with dual magnaflow mufflers. With e85 it is faster than any other BRZ/FRS I've driven on track, including force inducted ones. Do not do force induction if you are going to heavily track this car. Ok for the street but not OK for the track.

8) General upgrades - Sway bars, bushings, master brake cylinder brace, etc. - are they worth the money spent?
Reply:reinforce bushings with white line anywhere possible. Brace the brake master cylinder. The rest is not worth it in this bullet point.

And lastly, can someone help me better understand the progression in terms of potential upgrades?

1) When should I move to a wider or stickier tire?
Reply: Now. Anything is stickier and wiser than the Prius factory tires.

2) When should I go with a different suspension (e.g., coilovers with more adjustability)
Reply: Now. Coilovers in all four with camber plates in the front. Many good options. Best for me is Ohlin.

3) When should I consider racing seats / harnesses?
Reply: The same moment you do not want to drive your car in the street.

Points you did not touch:
Aero, drivetrain and gearing. You can IM anytime. Look forward to see you out there. You will recognize my caridad you go to the Autobahn Country Club. Andy.

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by Fish Eagle

Here's my opinions - but others will tell you you differently.
You choose what advice to take... YMMV.

I've done 40+ track days of which about 10 have been competitive time attack events.

My car is Vortech supercharged, with catless exhaust, tune, and crash bolts - that's all.
My track wheels are 17x7.5, and I use Bridgestone RE11S semis 225/45R17.

In South Africa, our normal air temps are 25°C-35°C, and sometimes hotter.

To have a lot of (safe) fun on track for no wasted cost, this is what you need.

1. Brake fluid - essential, not negotiable, safety issue.
Use Endless RF650, Motul RBF660 or equivalent.

2. Brake pads - essential, not negotiable, safety issue.
You have different pads to us here in Africa, so do some research and choose a good track/road pad suitable for track days.

3. A little bit of professional instruction.

4. Lots of seat time.

That's it. You'll have a lot of safe fun, and you'll know when and where to upgrade your car, but don't be in a hurry to do that.
Focus on upgrading the squidgy organic part behind the steering wheel first.

IMO, you don't need suspension mods (OK, maybe crash bolts).
You don't need expensive wheels and tyres.
You don't need more power.
You don't need an oil cooler as long as you keep your sessions to 30 mins or less.

You do need patience, and the understanding that you have a lot to learn.
And the quickest, best, and safest way to get faster is to improve your driving skills, and that only happens with lots of seat time.
The key to getting that right and the first thing you need to learn - is that you need to believe that you have a lot to learn...

Enjoy!!

What he said but I consider the oil cooler a requirement, non-negotiable, safety issue for your engine's life. You can also add Castrol SRF to the brake fluid, which is undisputedly the best fluid you can get.

You can do the crash bolts or camber bolts and max the camber to save your tires a bit, but like he said, the car is VERY good stock. A header and tune are nice, but not necessary.

I bolded all of the most important mod... the driver mod.

[Joesurf79]

Originally Posted by zdr93523

What he said but I consider the oil cooler a requirement, non-negotiable, safety issue for your engine's life. You can also add Castrol SRF to the brake fluid, which is undisputedly the best fluid you can get.

You can do the crash bolts or camber bolts and max the camber to save your tires a bit, but like he said, the car is VERY good stock. A header and tune are nice, but not necessary.

I bolded all of the most important mod... the driver mod.

1000% agree. Once you get some more experience, you'll know when it's time to do things to the car. Better to chase things from that direction as you'll know What you want to change, how you want things to behave post change, and why you're changing them

Oil cooler and brake fluid are non negotiable safety must haves for your motor and your self !

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Joesurf79

1000% agree. Once you get some more experience, you'll know when it's time to do things to the car. Better to chase things from that direction as you'll know What you want to change, how you want things to behave post change, and why you're changing them

Oil cooler and brake fluid are non negotiable safety must haves for your motor and your self !

This.

[Joesurf79]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This.

Haha, yep learned that lesson. Some things that aren't sexy at all will make you faster (proper alignment, tire temps, tire pressure, brake fluid,etc), and just because a big name company makes a sexy part painted a great color and wants to sell it to you, doesn't mean it will make you any faster. Often times it's the opposite if done without a goal of expected car behavior.

Nothing replaces seat time. Nothing. Buy and kill lots of tires while getting some instruction following faster people's lines. Pick their brains. Be a sponge.

[Azzudien]

Originally Posted by AndyBRZ

Reply:it is expensive but it does eliminate the torque dip. I run Delicious flex Tune with equal length headers and catless customer made exhaust all the way to the back with dual magnaflow mufflers. With e85 it is faster than any other BRZ/FRS I've driven on track, including force inducted ones. Do not do force induction if you are going to heavily track this car. Ok for the street but not OK for the track.

Why eliminate FI on a track car?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Joesurf79

7) Tune / Exhaust – It seems that a tune + headers/exhaust could eliminate part of the infamous torque dip and can add about 15ish hp. Should I be considering anything else from a power perspective? CAIs seem to get very little love around here, and I’m not sure what other power enhancers are reasonably priced & reliable.
Reply:it is expensive but it does eliminate the torque dip. I run Delicious flex Tune with equal length headers and catless customer made exhaust all the way to the back with dual magnaflow mufflers. With e85 it is faster than any other BRZ/FRS I've driven on track, including force inducted ones. Do not do force induction if you are going to heavily track this car. Ok for the street but not OK for the track.

Since this was brought up, I'd like to point out the sheer number FI cars that come out to 86CUP, that run without issue.

It really comes down to proper preparation for the conditions you subject your car to. Just now an oil cooler is mandatory to track a NA car, proper cooling is mandatory to track a FI car.

[Yanbags]

Originally Posted by Azzudien

Why eliminate FI on a track car?

To keep it as reliable as possible. Also heat management becomes more of an issue.

[Silver Supra]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Since this was brought up, I'd like to point out the sheer number FI cars that come out to 86CUP, that run without issue.

It really comes down to proper preparation for the conditions you subject your car to. Just now an oil cooler is mandatory to track a NA car, proper cooling is mandatory to track a FI car.

Originally Posted by Yanbags

To keep it as reliable as possible. Also heat management becomes more of an issue.

No inherent problem with forced induction on the track. I have tracked my Supra turbo for 14 years. You just fix the things that are, or could become problems, related to heat - as noted. Since my car is an auto, I added a transmission cooler as well as oil cooler. YMMV!