FT-86 Scoop by 7tune. Car coming in Nov. 2011

[dmon]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

awesome news
however the price is pissing me off cus here in OZ we get a massive markup (nissan is like 70% the 370Z costs 70000AUD which is 64000USD translated straight with todays exchange rate for the BASE mother fucking model, which is the reason why i will never buy one no matter how much money i am making at the moment, i will not give half my salary to greedy as mofos, not worth it. and if toyota brings the 86 out here with the same sort of markups (toyota does around 40% markup here) that would take the said model from 29000USD to 40000USD (45000AUD) which is still out of the range of their intended release market.. and if it gets released at 45000AUD they wont make many sales. i know noone on here cares what i am saying here, but i have a vague hope that someone from toyota marketing and finance will read this, ignore it and later loose there job when the car doesnt sell for that price

It's the same problem here in Europe.
Let's take Nissan 370z for example:
Check http://www2.nissan.de/angebote/sport-cars/370z/
The prices start at 38.690 EUR, and you get some kind of a discount of 5000 EUR (which you can't always get, but for now, let's say you can get it). So base model costs you 33.690 EUR (43.530 USD).

Now check http://www.nissanusa.com/zcoupe/?nex...card.thumbnail.
Prices start at 30.410 USD (23.535 EUR). So the difference is about 30%.

If Toyota FT-86 will cost about 29.000 USD (that's 370z base model territory) we can expect that this car will be priced similar (around 35.000 EUR). So, that doesn't sound like a entry level sports car to me. It's like Audi TT level of sports car (with 2.0 Turbo, 200 HP engine). And I highly doubt that materials used in the Toyota will be better. Engenering wise and reliability are probably the same (based on the latest studies, Audi is quite reliable and Toyota isn't as reliable as it was in the 1990's).

But let's check the prices for Toyota Prius in the USA and in Germany (I've chosen Prius, because it's sold here in Europe as it is in USA, and so you know I hate Prius and hybrids ).

Check http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/prius/pricelist.aspx
and http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/prius/pricelist.aspx

As you can see the European prices are 25.450, 28.750 and 26.750 EUR, based on trim levels.
USA models cost: 22.800, 23.800, 26.600 and 28.060 USD.

So we can say that conversion is about 1:1 EUR:USD, which means that if you convert USD prices to EUR you get:
17.645, 18.420, 20.587 and 21.716 EUR.

Let's average the prices in EUR:
EUROPE: (25.450 + 28.750 + 26.750) / 3 = 26.983 EUR
USA: (17.645 + 18.420 + 20.587 + 21.716) / 4 = 19.592 EUR

That's again about 30% difference (calculated as (1 - 19.592 / 26.983) * 100%), where USA is beeing cheaper.

So what we can expect, that FT86 will not be an entry level sports car, but an Audi TT competitor, which in my opinion will be a total failiure in Europe.
But if you want a FR layout you can get a used BMW Z4 2.3i with loads of equipment (leather, navigation, automatic, cruise control....) for about 38.000 EUR. I know this, because my friend bought one with 14.000km and 1 year old. The new price was about 50.000 EUR.

For conclusion. Toyota is going into the big boys teritory (Audi TT, BMW Z4) with it's price, but like in all of it's cars it can't beat the Germans. Check comparisons of BMW 3 series and Lexus IS. BMW is better.
I think this is a no-go for Europe with this price. And if you check out a much loved Golf GTI (and less loved Renault Megane RS, Ford Focus RS and all similar hot hatches that cost less that Audi TT and all get 200+ HP) Toyota is screwed engine wise (if they don't turbo the Subaru boxter they won't get 200+ HP), material wise (germans always have better materials), the only thing that's better on Toyota FT-86 is it's design. But I won't spend loads of my money just for design and then get 170HP engine. And handling...Golf GTI is a great handling car, so is Mini and Ford, even if they're FF.

Comments?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by dmon

It's the same problem here in Europe.
Let's take Nissan 370z for example:
Check http://www2.nissan.de/angebote/sport-cars/370z/
The prices start at 38.690 EUR, and you get some kind of a discount of 5000 EUR (which you can't always get, but for now, let's say you can get it). So base model costs you 33.690 EUR (43.530 USD).

Now check http://www.nissanusa.com/zcoupe/?nex...card.thumbnail.
Prices start at 30.410 USD (23.535 EUR). So the difference is about 30%.

If Toyota FT-86 will cost about 29.000 USD (that's 370z base model territory) we can expect that this car will be priced similar (around 35.000 EUR). So, that doesn't sound like a entry level sports car to me. It's like Audi TT level of sports car (with 2.0 Turbo, 200 HP engine). And I highly doubt that materials used in the Toyota will be better. Engenering wise and reliability are probably the same (based on the latest studies, Audi is quite reliable and Toyota isn't as reliable as it was in the 1990's).

But let's check the prices for Toyota Prius in the USA and in Germany (I've chosen Prius, because it's sold here in Europe as it is in USA, and so you know I hate Prius and hybrids ).

Check http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/prius/pricelist.aspx
and http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/prius/pricelist.aspx

As you can see the European prices are 25.450, 28.750 and 26.750 EUR, based on trim levels.
USA models cost: 22.800, 23.800, 26.600 and 28.060 USD.

So we can say that conversion is about 1:1 EUR:USD, which means that if you convert USD prices to EUR you get:
17.645, 18.420, 20.587 and 21.716 EUR.

Let's average the prices in EUR:
EUROPE: (25.450 + 28.750 + 26.750) / 3 = 26.983 EUR
USA: (17.645 + 18.420 + 20.587 + 21.716) / 4 = 19.592 EUR

That's again about 30% difference (calculated as (1 - 19.592 / 26.983) * 100%), where USA is beeing cheaper.

So what we can expect, that FT86 will not be an entry level sports car, but an Audi TT competitor, which in my opinion will be a total failiure in Europe.
But if you want a FR layout you can get a used BMW Z4 2.3i with loads of equipment (leather, navigation, automatic, cruise control....) for about 38.000 EUR. I know this, because my friend bought one with 14.000km and 1 year old. The new price was about 50.000 EUR.

For conclusion. Toyota is going into the big boys teritory (Audi TT, BMW Z4) with it's price, but like in all of it's cars it can't beat the Germans. Check comparisons of BMW 3 series and Lexus IS. BMW is better.
I think this is a no-go for Europe with this price. And if you check out a much loved Golf GTI (and less loved Renault Megane RS, Ford Focus RS and all similar hot hatches that cost less that Audi TT and all get 200+ HP) Toyota is screwed engine wise (if they don't turbo the Subaru boxter they won't get 200+ HP), material wise (germans always have better materials), the only thing that's better on Toyota FT-86 is it's design. But I won't spend loads of my money just for design and then get 170HP engine. And handling...Golf GTI is a great handling car, so is Mini and Ford, even if they're FF.

Comments?

Isn't there a lot of hidden tax in those prices too? I seem to recall that the UK gets hit the worst when it comes to cars, but most of the increase is tax? Is the tax included in the price in Europe?

In Canada I was comparing US Matrix prices to Canadian Matrix prices and was stunned to find the Canadian price was cheaper $16700 US vs $16665 CDN but could be because the Matrix is made in Canada. However the US only gets dinged for $760 US in handling fees where we pay $1390 CDN. The US site I was on didn't add any other taxes or fees to the price in the "Build-your-own" utility (Washington Zip code), but I don't know about their tax there. Total was $17460 US, which converts to $18085.94 CDN.

The Canadian site added $25 dollars for a tire levy and the glorious 12% HST tax (British Columbia, it used to just add the provincial sales tax and federal goods and services tax together for the same amount.) So the "Build-your-own" utility spat out $20249.60 CDN. Primary difference was from the tax.

I know some countries, like Japan include all their sales taxes etc... in the sticker price of the product. This can account for some of the differences. Maybe Europe does this?

Edit: What about import tariffs too? We have Toyota factories in North America as a work-around plus an 'alleged' free-trade agreement with the US. I forgot about tariffs, duty, maybe more expensive shipping, etc...

[Siriusly.Andrew]

Originally Posted by DanZilla

seriously tho, it better not be 29k with only 200hp lol

Why? VW did it with the GTi? I mean I wouldn't be to happy either, but it has been done before.

[Abflug]

[

[Midship Runabout]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

H4 + TT = Fail

[Midship Runabout]

Originally Posted by ONE

Just bought myself an AE86 not too long ago. Not sure if I'll be able to afford teh FT anymore.

Seriously?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dixie Normous

Seriously?

Yeah, he's probably going to have to throw buckets of money at it. But I would rather have a Hachi-Roku with $20k in it than a brand new F/T/R-86/S.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Yeah, he's probably going to have to throw buckets of money at it. But I would rather have a Hachi-Roku with $20k in it than a brand new F/T/R-86/S.

Hm... I do like hachi-roku, but I'm not sure I can spent $20k in it... but I'm more than willing to spent $20k on GC chassis Impreza.

[NESW20]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

H4 + TT = Fail

truth. anyone who wants twins on a 2.0L is silly, to say the least.

Originally Posted by DanZilla

seriously tho, it better not be 29k with only 200hp lol

i'd be fine with 200hp, although i still think they could easily get more out of it.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by NESW20

truth. anyone who wants twins on a 2.0L is silly, to say the least.



i'd be fine with 200hp, although i still think they could easily get more out of it.

Well Subaru got 190 out of a 2.0L NA a few years ago and this is going to be an improvement with direct injection and such, so there's no reason for it to be less than 200.

It's the weight that we have to worry about.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Well Subaru got 190 out of a 2.0L NA a few years ago and this is going to be an improvement with direct injection and such, so there's no reason for it to be less than 200.

It's the weight that we have to worry about.

Ah... that engine was... EJ204 ('03~'09 JDM Legacy BL & BP series). It was DOHC w AVCS.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by dmon

For conclusion. Toyota is going into the big boys teritory (Audi TT, BMW Z4) with it's price, but like in all of it's cars it can't beat the Germans. Check comparisons of BMW 3 series and Lexus IS. BMW is better.
I think this is a no-go for Europe with this price. And if you check out a much loved Golf GTI (and less loved Renault Megane RS, Ford Focus RS and all similar hot hatches that cost less that Audi TT and all get 200+ HP) Toyota is screwed engine wise (if they don't turbo the Subaru boxter they won't get 200+ HP), material wise (germans always have better materials), the only thing that's better on Toyota FT-86 is it's design. But I won't spend loads of my money just for design and then get 170HP engine. And handling...Golf GTI is a great handling car, so is Mini and Ford, even if they're FF.

Comments?

That is all.

[NESW20]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Well Subaru got 190 out of a 2.0L NA a few years ago and this is going to be an improvement with direct injection and such, so there's no reason for it to be less than 200.

It's the weight that we have to worry about.

exactly. and toyota got 180hp out of a 1.8L 10 years ago with the 2ZZ. 10 years of development and .2L should easily net 20hp. we pretty much said the exact same thing two different ways, haha.

let's hope the weight is 2700 or under...

[serchmarc]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

That is all.