Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh so only the guys that want more are permitted to be obnoxious and arrogant eh? The rest should just mildly agree with them?

You made an obnoxious blanket statement and got one in return.


If you go look at my posts, I'm in the "needs more power" crowd, but not in an unrealistic way.


I'd be fine with just getting rid of the torque dip. I could just spend $2,000 on a set of ACE headers and a tune, but I'd like to keep my warranty since my car is brand new and may have some bugs.


I don't like being lumped into a group and have some one tell me I just don't know how to drive and "need a single pedal to do the work for [me]."

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by krayzie

The whiners always turn out to be bean counters themselves. How ironic.



But it's ingenious how Toyota partnered with the Japanese aftermarket tuners with their so-called certification program. It's probably getting harder to comply with gov environmental standards while meeting a set price point so why not let the aftermarket serve its function for people that wanted more. Win/win situation. The factory probably doesn't want to double cross the aftermarket industry afterwards either.

This is reality. All day this^^^^^
How is this so hard to understand?

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I guess. Like I said, WRX has the STi. The new Supra will most likely have 2 power options. Lexus has the RC Coupe and RCF.


It just makes me yearn for an 86+

I think it might happen later when Toyota finally has their three sports cars line-up, if economies of scale permits.

I still think it's because of all the troubles Toyota had to go thru to make this original car happen that they can't deviate from the formula much, otherwise a lot of heads might roll.

I always suggest people to watch this to gain more insight of the hurdles and decisions the manufacturer has to go thru and consider to make a car like this. It also kinda explains why no power bump from the factory (the anti-concept aka. non-cept, basically a list of what the car shouldn't be).

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yauFjNknhSg"]Bob Hall, "Father of the Miata," speaking at Miatas at MRLS 2014 - YouTube[/ame]

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am sick and fucking tired of being told that since I (and anybody else that agrees) like the car as is and can actually drive it then I am some sort of loser that doesn't know shit.

Which is exactly how your post made me feel, but from the opposite direction.


We hug now.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

You made an obnoxious blanket statement and got one in return.


If you go look at my posts, I'm in the "needs more power" crowd, but not in an unrealistic way.


I'd be fine with just getting rid of the torque dip. I could just spend $2,000 on a set of ACE headers and a tune, but I'd like to keep my warranty since my car is brand new and may have some bugs.


I don't like being lumped into a group and have some one tell me I just don't know how to drive and "need a single pedal to do the work for [me]."

True. And my apologizes for that. I think I came back too soon!

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Most young guys know way more about these cars than I do. What they don't know but think they is how the industry works. I have no issue with them wanting more power but they can not bitch when it shows up and it is out of their reach financially.

The cars they want already exist. There's the 911, Cayman, Genesis Coupe, 370Z, Camaro, Mustang, etc. No idea why CD wrote the stupid article, and no idea why people bitch so much.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

The cars they want already exist. There's the 911, Cayman, Genesis Coupe, 370Z, Camaro, Mustang, etc. No idea why CD wrote the stupid article, and no idea why people bitch so much.

Exactly!!!!!!!

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh thank god! I was afraid that in my absence there would be no experts appearing here to set things right. So relieved to see that we have people that have swapped engines, tuned their cars have great inside info what the public REALLY wants, know enough about the concept of automotive business plans and ROI and all the other highly specialized tasks that Toyota and Subaru apparently have no clue on. Who knew it would be so easy to just slap a different engine in or tune it to however you want without having to meet requirements? The factory should have been doing this all along it is so obviously simple. God those engineers at the manufacturer must be really dumb to not have thought of all the "facts" thrown out here. The amazing track record (of shit ideas) for some of the people posting (see above) surely places them miles ahead of those poor ignorant engineers. Oh, and the profitability of these changed cars must be there since some random 20 year old on the internet says it is. I am soooo glad that somebody is putting all those thousands of accounting and marketing people with years of experience in their place. They had it coming to them for being so lazy and stupid.


You guys are fucking hilarious!

The 2017 MT already comes with a 4.30 FD, instead of a 4.10. That had to cost them a bit. The DBW throttle mapping can be done for FREE. Neither throttle mapping, nor changing the FD would affect the emissions of the vehicle, only the mpg, so what requirements are you blabbing about? The only idiot I see here is you Tcoat. You totally missed the point I was making. That point is that this engine CAN make more power below 3000 rpms, should make more power below 3k, and that having more power in the low-end would make the whole car seem more powerful to buyers and reviewers.

[EAGLE5]

The original Scion xB is a hell of a car. My dad has one. It's sitting in my driveway. Owners complained that it was under-powered, a bit small, and a bit tinny. Scion replaced it with the second gen, with a larger body, more space in and out, higher end materials, more power, a higher price, and worse fuel economy. Sales tanked.

When you get what you wished for, sometimes you realize you're a moron. People want what they want, but they don't usually know exactly what it is or isn't until it's sitting in front of their faces.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

The 2017 MT already comes with a 4.30 FD, instead of a 4.10. That had to cost them a bit. The DBW throttle mapping can be done for FREE. Neither throttle mapping, nor changing the FD would affect the emissions of the vehicle, only the mpg, so what requirements are you blabbing about? The only idiot I see here is you Tcoat. You totally missed the point I was making. That point is that this engine CAN make more power below 3000 rpms, should make more power below 3k, and that having more power in the low-end would make the whole car seem more powerful to buyers and reviewers.

MPG IS EMISSIONS!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

The 2017 MT already comes with a 4.30 FD, instead of a 4.10. That had to cost them a bit. The DBW throttle mapping can be done for FREE. Neither throttle mapping, nor changing the FD would affect the emissions of the vehicle, only the mpg, so what requirements are you blabbing about? The only idiot I see here is you Tcoat. You totally missed the point I was making. That point is that this engine CAN make more power below 3000 rpms, should make more power below 3k, and that having more power in the low-end would make the whole car seem more powerful to buyers and reviewers.

You apparently missed my point. If what you said does in fact meet all the very stringent requirements (how do you KNOW it does?) then the engineers that designed the car would have done those things. They went to a pile of trouble to get the 5hp that they did. You feel you are better informed and trained than they are? You think there is some weird conspiracy to keep the car "underpowered"? That is "can" make it with mods means that people are free to mod it. It does not mean that the company can do the same thing. Please cite the international standards that you tested against to ensure that all the things you did meet all the requirements.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

The original Scion xB is a hell of a car. My dad has one. It's sitting in my driveway. Owners complained that it was under-powered, a bit small, and a bit tinny. Scion replaced it with the second gen, with a larger body, more space in and out, higher end materials, more power, a higher price, and worse fuel economy. Sales tanked.

When you get what you wished for, sometimes you realize you're a moron. People want what they want, but they don't usually know exactly what it is or isn't until it's sitting in front of their faces.

Ahhh somebody that actually get's my drift!

[Lantana frs]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Most young guys know way more about these cars than I do. What they don't know but think they is how the industry works. I have no issue with them wanting more power but they can not bitch when it shows up and it is out of their reach financially.

Or is 200 lbs heavier.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

MPG IS EMISSIONS!

When they changed to a 4.3 FD, the MPG went down. The tested emissions are unchanged, since most testing is done stationary, and the testing done on a roller is done by rpms, not mph. The car is emitting more emissions at 55 mph than it was before, since the rpms are higher, but it also emits more in all the lower gears at 55 mph. I'm talking about the emission control used to pass requirements, not total emissions. You want an emission-less vehicle, get a G-Whiz.