Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jvincent

Bam! Fully rested and ready to battle the interwebs!

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh thank god! I was afraid that in my absence there would be no experts appearing here to set things right. So relieved to see that we have people that have swapped engines, tuned their cars have great inside info what the public REALLY wants, know enough about the concept of automotive business plans and ROI and all the other highly specialized tasks that Toyota and Subaru apparently have no clue on. Who knew it would be so easy to just slap a different engine in or tune it to however you want without having to meet requirements? The factory should have been doing this all along it is so obviously simple. God those engineers at the manufacturer must be really dumb to not have thought of all the "facts" thrown out here. The amazing track record (of shit ideas) for some of the people posting (see above) surely places them miles ahead of those poor ignorant engineers. Oh, and the profitability of these changed cars must be there since some random 20 year old on the internet says it is. I am soooo glad that somebody is putting all those thousands of accounting and marketing people with years of experience in their place. They had it coming to them for being so lazy and stupid.


You guys are fucking hilarious!

Hey, welcome back

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh thank god! I was afraid that in my absence there would be no experts appearing here to set things right. So relieved to see that we have people that have swapped engines, tuned their cars have great inside info what the public REALLY wants, know enough about the concept of automotive business plans and ROI and all the other highly specialized tasks that Toyota and Subaru apparently have no clue on. Who knew it would be so easy to just slap a different engine in or tune it to however you want without having to meet requirements? The factory should have been doing this all along it is so obviously simple. God those engineers at the manufacturer must be really dumb to not have thought of all the "facts" thrown out here. The amazing track record (of shit ideas) for some of the people posting (see above) surely places them miles ahead of those poor ignorant engineers. Oh, and the profitability of these changed cars must be there since some random 20 year old on the internet says it is. I am soooo glad that somebody is putting all those thousands of accounting and marketing people with years of experience in their place. They had it coming to them for being so lazy and stupid.


You guys are fucking hilarious!

This. Expecting companies to change things or listen to anyone is just too much to ask. When was the last time a company made a bonehead move, honestly? Whatever it was, I'm sure the mistake was most certainly the best outcome available. No way to avoid it, really.


Companies like Honda, Toyota, hell, even Nintendo have never, NEVER done anything that wasn't the best idea possible.


All you guise suggesting ways to improve the car should just give up. This thread has proven that adding even 20 more hp to the car would add at least 500 pounds of weight and sales would just die. The drivetrain would implode. You can't expect highly respected engineers to solve problems like that.


Everything is fine. Nothing is wrong. The car is the best it could have ever been. No room for improvement here.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

This. Expecting companies to change things or listen to anyone is just too much to ask. When was the last time a company made a bonehead move, honestly? Whatever it was, I'm sure the mistake was most certainly the best outcome available. No way to avoid it, really.


Companies like Honda, Toyota, hell, even Nintendo have never, NEVER done anything that wasn't the best idea possible.


All you guise suggesting ways to improve the car should just give up. This thread has proven that adding even 20 more hp to the car would add at least 500 pounds of weight and sales would just die. The drivetrain would implode. You can't expect highly respected engineers to solve problems like that.


Everything is fine. Nothing is wrong. The car is the best it could have ever been. No room for improvement here.

Well done!


Added to the list (see above)


Yes companies make mistakes but a bunch of guys second guessing everything does not mean there were mistakes made in this case.
No doubt they could indeed make a higher horsepower engine for the guys that have no clue how to actually drive and rely on a push of one pedal to do the work for them. We are not privy to the reasons why they chose not to and never will be so all the "they just could", "Easy to..." and "I think.." rhetoric is just pissing into the wind.
You want more? Then do more. Simple as that. They said from the very start what they were going to make and that is what they did. They also supported the aftermarket so that people could get what they wanted. All the things that the whiners are looking for could be done and then they would just scream that it cost to much and they are being ripped off. They are companies not charities set up to cater to the delusional F&F fiction daydreams of a few wannabe street racers many of that can't control the car with the pitiful 200hp it has.
You want to shave that 2 seconds off the trip between two stop lights then mod your car or buy a Vette.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well done!


Added to the list (see above)


Yes companies make mistakes but a bunch of guys second guessing everything does not mean there were mistakes made in this case.
No doubt they could indeed make a higher horsepower engine for the guys that have no clue how to actually drive and rely on a push of one pedal to do the work for them.

That's simplifying all the viewpoints in this thread to a staggering degree.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

We are not privy to the reasons why they chose not to and never will be so all the "they just could", "Easy to..." and "I think.." rhetoric is just pissing into the wind.

It is, but this is a forum. Unless this is in a stickied Tech article or something, that's just kinda what car guys do.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You want more? Then do more. Simple as that. They said from the very start what they were going to make and that is what they did. They also supported the aftermarket so that people could get what they wanted. All the things that the whiners are looking for could be done and then they would just scream that it cost to much and they are being ripped off.

That's an assumption. I thought you didn't like second-guessing?

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They are companies not charities set up to cater to the delusional F&F fiction daydreams of a few wannabe street racers many of that can't control the car with the pitiful 200hp it has.

Lol, not my problem.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You want to shave that 2 seconds off the trip between two stop lights then mod your car or buy a Vette.

Right. Because that's what power is all about. Stop lights. Who's the one with a F&F mindset again?

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well done!


Added to the list (see above)


Yes companies make mistakes but a bunch of guys second guessing everything does not mean there were mistakes made in this case.
No doubt they could indeed make a higher horsepower engine for the guys that have no clue how to actually drive and rely on a push of one pedal to do the work for them. We are not privy to the reasons why they chose not to and never will be so all the "they just could", "Easy to..." and "I think.." rhetoric is just pissing into the wind.
You want more? Then do more. Simple as that. They said from the very start what they were going to make and that is what they did. They also supported the aftermarket so that people could get what they wanted. All the things that the whiners are looking for could be done and then they would just scream that it cost to much and they are being ripped off. They are companies not charities set up to cater to the delusional F&F fiction daydreams of a few wannabe street racers many of that can't control the car with the pitiful 200hp it has.
You want to shave that 2 seconds off the trip between two stop lights then mod your car or buy a Vette.

Tcoat, I think it's time you sold the FRS and got a Porsche. Then you can join the old, white men complaining about the stupid young men who don't know shit about cars.

Oh wait, you have Ultramaroon and humfrz already. Never mind.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well done!


Added to the list (see above)


Yes companies make mistakes but a bunch of guys second guessing everything does not mean there were mistakes made in this case.
No doubt they could indeed make a higher horsepower engine for the guys that have no clue how to actually drive and rely on a push of one pedal to do the work for them. We are not privy to the reasons why they chose not to and never will be so all the "they just could", "Easy to..." and "I think.." rhetoric is just pissing into the wind.
You want more? Then do more. Simple as that. They said from the very start what they were going to make and that is what they did. They also supported the aftermarket so that people could get what they wanted. All the things that the whiners are looking for could be done and then they would just scream that it cost to much and they are being ripped off. They are companies not charities set up to cater to the delusional F&F fiction daydreams of a few wannabe street racers many of that can't control the car with the pitiful 200hp it has.
You want to shave that 2 seconds off the trip between two stop lights then mod your car or buy a Vette.

I don't think it is outrageous that people are yearning for a more performance oriented 86. Many enthusiast cars past/present have more than one option when it comes to power delivery. Sure, it would mean increasing the overall cost of the car, but if you limited production I'm sure they would all sell in a heartbeat.


Focus/ Focus ST/ Focus RS
Miata 1.5L/ Miata 2.0/ Mazdaspeed Miata???
Civic/ Civic SI / Civic Type R
300zx / 300zx TT
Mustang GT / Mustang GT350
WRX / WRX STi
Golf / GTi / Golf R
Corvette / z06


There is nothing wrong, or ridiculous with wanting more options from the factory. The Performance Package is a step in the right direction, but I think the BRZ deserves a STi model, and Subaru will make a big mistake if they don't decide to make one.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I don't think it is outrageous that people are yearning for a more performance oriented 86. Many enthusiast cars past/present have more than one option when it comes to power delivery. Sure, it would mean increasing the overall cost of the car, but if you limited production I'm sure they would all sell in a heartbeat.


Focus/ Focus ST/ Focus RS
Miata 1.5L/ Miata 2.0/ Mazdaspeed Miata???
Civic/ Civic SI / Civic Type R
300zx / 300zx TT
Mustang GT / Mustang GT350
WRX / WRX STi
Golf / GTi / Golf R
Corvette / z06


There is nothing wrong, or ridiculous with wanting more options from the factory. The Performance Package is a step in the right direction, but I think the BRZ deserves a STi model, and Subaru will make a big mistake if they don't decide to make one.

I do not either. But for some reason they did not decide to go that route. If they do it still won't be enough for many.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

All the things that the whiners are looking for could be done and then they would just scream that it cost to much and they are being ripped off. They are companies not charities set up to cater to the delusional F&F fiction daydreams of a few wannabe street racers many of that can't control the car with the pitiful 200hp it has.

The whiners always turn out to be bean counters themselves. How ironic.

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

There is nothing wrong, or ridiculous with wanting more options from the factory.

But it's ingenious how Toyota partnered with the Japanese aftermarket tuners with their so-called certification program. It's probably getting harder to comply with gov environmental standards while meeting a set price point so why not let the aftermarket serve its function for people that wanted more. Win/win situation. The factory probably doesn't want to double cross the aftermarket industry afterwards either.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Tcoat, I think it's time you sold the FRS and got a Porsche. Then you can join the old, white men complaining about the stupid young men who don't know shit about cars.

Oh wait, you have Ultramaroon and humfrz already. Never mind.

Most young guys know way more about these cars than I do. What they don't know but think they is how the industry works. I have no issue with them wanting more power but they can not bitch when it shows up and it is out of their reach financially.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I do not either. But for some reason they did not decide to go that route. If they do it still won't be enough for many.

No car is ever going to please everyone. That doesn't mean we should just stop making them or stop expecting improvements.

Don't be such a defeatist.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by krayzie

But it's ingenious how Toyota partnered with the Japanese aftermarket tuners with their so-called certification program. It's probably getting harder to comply with gov or environmental standards while meeting a set price point so why not let the aftermarket do its job for people that wanted more. Win/win situation. The factory probably doesn't want to double cross the aftermarket industry afterwards either.

I guess. Like I said, WRX has the STi. The new Supra will most likely have 2 power options. Lexus has the RC Coupe and RCF.


It just makes me yearn for an 86+

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

That's simplifying all the viewpoints in this thread to a staggering degree.

They don't? Just I am? Fire with fire is not reasonable?




It is, but this is a forum. Unless this is in a stickied Tech article or something, that's just kinda what car guys do.
Agreed but the second anybody says they are fine with things they are labeled a loser.




That's an assumption. I thought you didn't like second-guessing?

No assumption about it. People would complain. Look how many already complain about the price.



Lol, not my problem.

It is your problem if you want cars like these. They do not come free.



Right. Because that's what power is all about. Stop lights. Who's the one with a F&F mindset again?


All I said does not apply to the guys that actually track or race the cars under controlled conditions. The reference is to the oft stated "I git beat by a Camry" crowd.

Oh so only the guys that want more are permitted to be obnoxious and arrogant eh? The rest should just mildly agree with them?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

No car is ever going to please everyone. That doesn't mean we should just stop making them or stop expecting improvements.

Don't be such a defeatist.

Nothing "defeatist" about my thoughts. Again it doesn't matter what is made some will say it is crap because something else has more. So many seem to want a Z instead of what the car is but as soon as the talk turns to them then they are crap too.
I am sick and fucking tired of being told that since I (and anybody else that agrees) like the car as is and can actually drive it then I am some sort of loser that doesn't know shit.