Amp Advice

[TheBRZsKnees]

Hey all,

I should first say that I'm not very familiar with car audio. I've spent a fair amount of time searching, but I wasn't able to find anyone in quite the same position as me.

I went to a local audio place for advice on upgrading on a budget. In the end, I went with their recommendation and got an MRV-V500 amp, as well as replacing the door speakers and tweeters. I also had them add wiring for a sub (which I haven't gotten yet).

What I didn't realize was that this process included ditching the dash speakers entirely, so now I'm missing my mid-range pretty badly.

I've been running the set-up for quite a while now, so I don't remember why it was that they told me the amp couldn't handle the dash speakers as well. I assumed it as an issue with 5 channels being insufficient, but my research seems to indicate that that's not the case.

tl;dr, audio setup with MRV-V500 involved removing my dash speakers, and I want them back. What's the most cost-efficient way to do this? Any suggestions are appreciated.

[Jesse36m3]

Wait, so you replace the tweeters but you're saying you don't have any dash speakers now? Were they relocated? Exactly what speakers did you have installed and are all four channels being used?


That's a relatively puny amp for the $$, btw.


I'd say you got boned from every angle, even the cost for install I'd imagine.

[TheBRZsKnees]

Originally Posted by Jesse36m3

Wait, so you replace the tweeters but you're saying you don't have any dash speakers now? Were they relocated? Exactly what speakers did you have installed and are all four channels being used?


That's a relatively puny amp for the $$, btw.


I'd say you got boned from every angle, even the cost for install I'd imagine.

I replaced the door speakers with Focal 165AS. The corresponding tweeters are in the dash. The speakers in the back were left stock. The 4" dash speakers that were located next to the tweeters are now missing.

The install wasn't cheap, but I shopped around a lot and it was the best I could find. Overall, it sounds quite a bit better than stock, but some genres of music just don't come through quite right.

I stopped back by the shop yesterday, and they recommended a new head unit instead. I know the equalizer on the stock one (2014 BRZ LTD) is crap, but that solution doesn't seem cost-efficient or effective to me.

[Jesse36m3]

Originally Posted by ph4zon

I replaced the door speakers with Focal 165AS. The corresponding tweeters are in the dash. The speakers in the back were left stock. The 4" dash speakers that were located next to the tweeters are now missing.

The install wasn't cheap, but I shopped around a lot and it was the best I could find. Overall, it sounds quite a bit better than stock, but some genres of music just don't come through quite right.

I stopped back by the shop yesterday, and they recommended a new head unit instead. I know the equalizer on the stock one (2014 BRZ LTD) is crap, but that solution doesn't seem cost-efficient or effective to me.

gotchya, so they replaced the factory 3-way with a passive 2-way. That's fine, but I wouldn't have mounted the tweeters up so high in the dash. Generally, you want to keep them close(r) to the 6.5" in the door. They were just using the factory locations ..


The 4" dash speakers obviously won't work with this new setup, which is why they discarded them, leaving behind a strange sound stage because all of the highs are reflecting off the glass windshield now. Might seem "harsh," so try adjusting the tweeter attenuation levels on the crossover (if they didn't hide them in the door).


Anyway, the factory head unit is indeed garbage, I have the same one. Seeing as this is where your source is coming from, it is (in my opinion) the most important part of a new stereo system and would be the first thing I'd replace. Everything downstream of the source is only going to be as good as the head unit can provide, thus your bottleneck lays there.

[TheBRZsKnees]

Originally Posted by Jesse36m3

gotchya, so they replaced the factory 3-way with a passive 2-way. That's fine, but I wouldn't have mounted the tweeters up so high in the dash. Generally, you want to keep them close(r) to the 6.5" in the door. They were just using the factory locations ..


The 4" dash speakers obviously won't work with this new setup, which is why they discarded them, leaving behind a strange sound stage because all of the highs are reflecting off the glass windshield now. Might seem "harsh," so try adjusting the tweeter attenuation levels on the crossover (if they didn't hide them in the door).


Anyway, the factory head unit is indeed garbage, I have the same one. Seeing as this is where your source is coming from, it is (in my opinion) the most important part of a new stereo system and would be the first thing I'd replace. Everything downstream of the source is only going to be as good as the head unit can provide, thus your bottleneck lays there.

Alright, I see. Any recommendations on a head unit that's going to give me the most bang for my buck? I don't care about nav since I never use the car's nav system, but good bluetooth compatibility with Android and iOS would be preferred.

[Jesse36m3]

Originally Posted by ph4zon

Alright, I see. Any recommendations on a head unit that's going to give me the most bang for my buck? I don't care about nav since I never use the car's nav system, but good bluetooth compatibility with Android and iOS would be preferred.

When I do my build next year I'm going to go for a N7 tablet, that is if google doesn't release a new one by then. Probably go USB out to an external DAC then to the amps. I really haven't looked at aftermarket head units much lately so I wouldn't know any more than you do right now.

Back in the day I was always fond of Alpine, Pioneer, Kenwood and clarion as far as head units go. I had a 9887 unit that was my absolute favorite but that has been long discontinued. If I could, I'd get that one again. It has all of the audiophile features while being subtle and classy. However, since the brz has a double din, I'm going to take advantage of that and use the tablet more than likely.

[czechm8]

Seems like your audio dealer simply sold you the equipment they had and didn't consider the environment in which they were to be installed. Jesse is correct, the installed a stock Focal 2-way setup with the included crossovers and installed the drivers in the stock locations. Having the tweeters mounted up high with the stock Focal crossovers will probably give you a rather "tinny" sound - like there is no frequency reproduction in the mid-range.
A new head unit will probably give you a better source signal, but it won't solve your crossover/install location problem.
You have two choices in my opinion:


1) Use a custom crossover that has a higher crossover point and a greater overlap between the two drivers in order blend the frequencies to overcome the large distance between the drivers. (this assumes the drivers have a suitable range to accommodate the new crossovers). It would also require that you or someone else design and build the crossovers.
2) Have your audio shop build kick panel enclosures to house both drivers. This will allow you to use the stock Focal crossovers and provide a much better sound stage having both drivers relatively close to each other.


Option 1 is a more time consuming and costly option - and is difficult to get right.

[Leonardo]

I have upgraded my system. On a budget. I replaced everything for about $450. My head unit was used as well as my sub and box. The stock system is not like any I have ever worked on before. 6 speakers, 1 deck and 1 amp. The little amp only goes to the door speakers. The deck goes to the 4 3.5" speakers. It creates a wiring dilemma; which channels to attach to which speakers.

I had a 4 channel Poweracoustik amp laying around from another project. I have half bridged to the sub and half to the doors. Deck powers the 3.5's. 2awg wire with a proper ground. (no hum)

[Chimera]

Theres a lot going on here.. and I don't necessarily think that going with the current setup is 'bad' but prob could be better.


Lets start here:
what's your current objective?
If it is simply getting the 3.5 dash speakers back, that is easy to accomplish. (and similar to my build)


if it is something else (I'm missing xyz frequency or feeling etc) let us know!

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

There is no need for a custom crossover. Just a need to go "active". Active means having adjustable crossover, real eq, time alignment, at minimum. That could fix the problems your having, but without doing that, its always going to be a bit off compared to factory.

Unfortunately, despite what most local shops tell you, you can't just slap random parts in cars and get good sound. It has to be processed for every single car, because every single car changes the sound.

[czechm8]

Yes, you could go with an Active setup. Assuming the amp and drivers are capable. An active setup requires lots of tuning to get right.
With his drivers located where they are, I would be more concerned that the FR range of these drivers is sufficient to pull off either approach.
Given his current install location, you are going to need a mid-bass driver that can play up to nearly 6K Hertz without noticeable drop off. You will also need a tweeter that can play down to 4K or 5K Hertz.


I know this because I went through all this with my Sequoia using stock locations for the tweets and mids. I ended up with a couple of unique drivers and built my own crossovers. Mids are crossed at 5.7K Hertz and ring radiator tweets down to 5K Hertz. That turned out to be the sweet spot to overcome the separation of the drivers and provide good imaging.


When I bought my 10 Series, I didn't want to spend lots of time trying to figure out an after-market setup like I did with the Tree. Honestly, I was giddy to learn about the OEM Audio+ setup and went with the reference series. For me, it was a no-brainer. OEM has done their homework and assembled a very nice system that would be very difficult to duplicate without some very experienced help. The time they have spent tuning this system to get it right is well worth what you pay for it....IMHO.

[NickB34]

I'm surprised that if they were able to convince you to buy the Focal 165AS that they didn't also convince you to go for the 165AS 3-Way. I realize it's a bit more money, but it would have filled the void you are talking about. I'm definitely interested in picking up a set of 3-Way components when I decide to upgrade the speakers. The decision for the 5-channel amp is also interesting... are the rear speakers being powered now? If not, then I'd expect that they bridged the front speakers over the 4 channels for more power. I agree with Jesse, for the money that isn't a great amp for this setup. There are many 4-channel amps with way better $/Watt that could have had the rear channels bridged to power the sub and the front ones powering your components.

[TheBRZsKnees]

I'm trying to understand what an active setup entails. Is the hardware expensive? It seems like the real challenge is in the labor that it takes to tune it. What do you think the ballpark cost would be to have it done in a shop, since I don't have any experience with it? How to I tell if the hardware I have now is compatible?

At this point, I'm pretty much sold on a new head unit since I'm not a fan of the stock one anyway, but if I can improve it further, I'm all for it.

Originally Posted by Chimera

Theres a lot going on here.. and I don't necessarily think that going with the current setup is 'bad' but prob could be better.


Lets start here:
what's your current objective?
If it is simply getting the 3.5 dash speakers back, that is easy to accomplish. (and similar to my build)


if it is something else (I'm missing xyz frequency or feeling etc) let us know!

It seems like more speakers aren't the best solution, or at least not the most cost-effective one. I suppose it would be more of a frequency issue, but it's hard to explain without hearing it in person. In general, I've found that electronic music comes through great, while rock and metal music often sounds underpowered.

[Chimera]

Originally Posted by ph4zon

I'm trying to understand what an active setup entails. Is the hardware expensive? It seems like the real challenge is in the labor that it takes to tune it. What do you think the ballpark cost would be to have it done in a shop, since I don't have any experience with it? How to I tell if the hardware I have now is compatible?

At this point, I'm pretty much sold on a new head unit since I'm not a fan of the stock one anyway, but if I can improve it further, I'm all for it.



It seems like more speakers aren't the best solution, or at least not the most cost-effective one. I suppose it would be more of a frequency issue, but it's hard to explain without hearing it in person. In general, I've found that electronic music comes through great, while rock and metal music often sounds underpowered.

Active setups will give you more control, but I'm not gonna lie, going active right out the gate without even having a sub installed yet is prob not right for you.


Sounds like right now you have stock HU, stock rear speakers, an alpine MRV-V500 (which is a good amp) and a set of 2way passives up front.
If I was you, I'd recommend getting a sub for the sub channel and a head unit which will let you control what that MRV-V500 is doing much better, and you prob wont need new speakers for your needs.


budget becomes a question, but if you are doing a Hu I would def recommend something with android auto or apple carplay if your an iPhone person. I'm using a pioneer 4100NEX. Alpine, kenwood, etc all make good units with good feature sets.


Get a sub, something like this is good
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSX2...02.html?tp=112
which will not use too much trunk space
or I can personally recommend this if money isn't a concern:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-y5N03Qd...tealthbox.html


you can get this from these guys at a discount, shipping doesn't take too long:
http://www.pacificstereo.com/jl-audi...frs-10tw3.html


once you have the sub figured out and the head unit, I'd recommend learning the basics on crossover control from the headunit before investing in full active. I'd go with HPF 100hz 12db on fronts, HPF 125 12db on rears, and LPF 80hz 18db on sub.

cost wise this is somewhere around 800~1500 for a nice sub and a nice head unit and will make better use of what you already have installed.


You might decide later you still want to use the 3.5 (I did)
if so you can install a set of 3.5s on headunit power, and have the 2ways run off the amp. but I wouldn't do that until you have done the other things here, as its prob not necessary.