Drift-Office : Jackson Racing Supercharger Installed! (Tune Tommorow!)

[Calum]

Originally Posted by vgi

@Drift-Office so according to the above, if jackson racing / kraftwerks canned tunes are SD based then (because each car's engine has it's own VE) those tunes in the best case just will not be optimized for the customer's car. if those tunes are maf based then it's also questionable how good the tune is since the MAF values possibly could be skewed beyond it's intended range.

I can see why all these posts confuse people, especially those who would want to get CARB approval.

@gmsii and @Jackson Racing maybe you guys could provide more info on your canned tunes? are those SD or MAF or hybrid setup and how well/safe they would be considering above limitations of each tuning solution running in various cars in different locations on different variation of premium fuel blends?

A little more fuel to add to the fire, Delicious Tuning sells canned tunes for the Kraft Works kit and from what I can gather, DT was a part of the development of the tune sold by Kraft Works. Bill (DT) tends to hold his cards close to his chest so I don't know how much the two companies worked together. But as you can read in the linked post, DT also uses either a hybrid or a speed density setup in their tune for the KW kit.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=10

I don't remember where, but I'm pretty sure Bob has stated that he isn't a fan of e-tuning. Maybe these issues are more related to Bob's preference to locally tune then take the chance that something might be off and have damage done before he can correct it. Maybe DT, KW, and JR are offering tunes that are extremely conservative, and DT is expecting to make some fairly major adjustments after he receives logs. Then again, that's how I read Bob's posts anyway, that a canned tune could work, it just wouldn't be anywhere near as smooth or powerful as a local tune.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ecko04

A base tune is just that, basic. It isn't optimal and needs to be dialed in. This is for every FI system on the market.

There is no One-Size-Fits-All

Except, in the case of the tune that comes with the Jackson Racing kit, it's actually designed to never be replaced, if you put it on a stock car.

Keep in mind, CARB emissions requirements are some of the strictest in the world, the kit already passed.

We'll be running the included tune on our BRZ, and I assure you we will be the first to break something if the tune is bad (and Jackson Racing isn't to far away from us, so we'll be showing up in person to raise hell if necessary).

[CSG Mike]

Since nobody else will do it... I will

2013 FRS / 6MT Transmission
Jackson Racing Supercharger Kit w/ 10 PSI Pulley
STOCK OEM Injectors
STOCK OEM Fuel Pump
OMNI 3 Bar Map Sensor
Drift-Office Custom ECUTEK SPEED DENSITY Calibration
HKS Equal Length Header
J2 Motoring Uncatted Front Pipe
Perrin 2.5 Inch Exhaust

vs

2013 FRS / 6MT Transmission
KraftWerks Supercharger Kit w/ 10 PSI Pulley
STOCK OEM Injectors
STOCK OEM Fuel Pump
OMNI 3 Bar Map Sensor
Drift-Office Custom ECUTEK SPEED DENSITY Calibration
Nameless 2.5 Inch Overpipe, Catted Front Pipe & Axle Back Exhaust


***these images are scaled for the hp/torque graph only. The AFR and Boost graphs are NOT TO SCALE***

**I do not have photoshop at work... so I had to crash course myself in GIMP, and there's no free transform, so I did the best I could given what I have for now**


Kraftwerks:


Jackson Racing:


Combined:

[ramiram1984]

Hehe. For my car it's Perrin OP, motiv catless FP, not J2.

[sw20kosh]

Conclusion, HKS EL header opens up the top end.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Conclusion, HKS EL header opens up the top end.

and eliminates a dip at 4700?

[utekineir]

i'm more impressed with how little having no cats and stock header affects results than anything.

[uspspro]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

and eliminates a dip at 4700?

The header just seems to make the car run smoother.

I had to check if the smoothing was set different, but they are both set at 5.

Interesting.

[Jackson Racing]

Originally Posted by Calum

I could only imagine the turbulence through this part. And that's where they put the MAF, in what looks like a 2.25 inch section of pipe.

We have a lot of experience with blow-through MAFs with our CARB testing on multiple vehicles. What you can't see is we have developed an air straightener that gives us accurate readings across the MAF sensor.

-Oscar Jr.

[Jackson Racing]

Good stuff Bob!

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

JR had said it was possible to tune it off the MAF, though I respectfully disagreed. Not sure how they did it but I couldn't without skewing the MAF values beyond it's intended range... To each his own I guess!

The difference here is you are tuning without the catalytic converters and this brought the MAF out of range. Our CARB calibration is within MAF range and safe. Since this was a TIY kit, tuning is dependent on the setup and the tuner, and you did a great job!

-Oscar Jr.

[Jackson Racing]

Originally Posted by vgi

@Jackson Racing maybe you guys could provide more info on your canned tunes? are those SD or MAF or hybrid setup and how well/safe they would be considering above limitations of each tuning solution running in various cars in different locations on different variation of premium fuel blends?

The Jackson Racing CARB calibration is MAF based and designed to be used with the OEM catalytic converters. Our calibration has been thoroughly tested to ensure safety and proper drivability with CA91 Octane and above.

If you remove your catalytic converters, you would obviously need to have your car tuned for the changes.

-Oscar Jr.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Jackson Racing

The Jackson Racing CARB calibration is MAF based and designed to be used with the OEM catalytic converters. Our calibration has been thoroughly tested to ensure safety and proper drivability with CA91 Octane and above.

If you remove your catalytic converters, you would obviously need to have your car tuned for the changes.

-Oscar Jr.

how does removing a cat effect the accuracy of the maf scaling? and is the actual diameter of the maf in the kit 2.25" as stated above? will that not drastically limit it's operating range since the stock maf housing is larger than that, iirc? is this why tuners are going with sd hybrid for this setup?

[Jackson Racing]

Originally Posted by jamesm

how does removing a cat effect the accuracy of the maf scaling? and is the actual diameter of the maf in the kit 2.25" as stated above? will that not drastically limit it's operating range since the stock maf housing is larger than that, iirc? is this why tuners are going with sd hybrid for this setup?

Removing the cats will increase flow. Increasing the flow will increase engine VE and will affect a calibration.

The post you are referencing was not saying the MAF diameter was 2.25". That would definitely cause problems! Our MAF tube is 3" OD and can support our CARB system.

-Oscar Jr.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

and eliminates a dip at 4700?

Are you asking me a question or stating that as an observation? The curves look exactly the same for all intents and purposes until you get to the top end where the stock header limits it.

What is your theory on why that little hiccup is there?