valve spring issue?

[maslin]

Originally Posted by ermax

Rumor is some dealers have put their own stop order in the repair.

They may be suggesting to delay it a bit, I doubt they can outright refuse to perform a federal recall.

Might be better to push the issue, 99% chance you'll get a new engine! (going by the broad sample size here).

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Why? What would it prove? To track failures without knowing the number of successes is dirty data. It is worse than meaningless since it does not consider all the possibilities. Even if we could track the failures vs the successes on here it would still be meaningless since we are just too small a sample size to compile any form of accurate statistics.
It is indisputable that there have been some problems but to emphasize those issues while ignoring the successes is nothing but fear mongering and irresponsible.
Everybody needs to just take a step back, take a big breath and relax. Going on a quest to find issues only will result in finding only the issues and not the reality of the situation.

So I see you have a 2014. So you aren't involved in the recall. Those of us who are do have concerns. I brought my car in for the recall last Thursday. Since then they have removed the engine and determined that there was an overrev condition. I went and took a look and the valve timing had been altered. Keep in mind that this car has run perfectly ever since the transmission was replaced five years ago. The only CEL it's ever had was 5 years ago when I mounted the ESC without a tune. And the guy tells me the car came in with a CEL. What an effen liar. So he gave me a list of parts required which will cost $748.34. These are the chains, tensioners, guides,etc. All of these parts I pointed out to him are in perfect condition. So I accused him of fraud. And he told me to call Toyota Corporate. I did and they are supposedly working the case. If I ever get my car back I will give a full report on the BS they've been giving me. The story really is unbelievable.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

So I see you have a 2014. So you aren't involved in the recall. Those of us who are do have concerns. I brought my car in for the recall last Thursday. Since then they have removed the engine and determined that there was an overrev condition. I went and took a look and the valve timing had been altered. Keep in mind that this car has run perfectly ever since the transmission was replaced five years ago. The only CEL it's ever had was 5 years ago when I mounted the ESC without a tune. And the guy tells me the car came in with a CEL. What an effen liar. So he gave me a list of parts required which will cost $748.34. These are the chains, tensioners, guides,etc. All of these parts I pointed out to him are in perfect condition. So I accused him of fraud. And he told me to call Toyota Corporate. I did and they are supposedly working the case. If I ever get my car back I will give a full report on the BS they've been giving me. The story really is unbelievable.

I repeat. There have been issues. That does NOT mean that everybody is going to have one. It most certainly does not mean that the majority will.
No mine is not a 13. Does that mean I am prohibited from having opinions or making comments?

[ermax]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

So I see you have a 2014. So you aren't involved in the recall. Those of us who are do have concerns. I brought my car in for the recall last Thursday. Since then they have removed the engine and determined that there was an overrev condition. I went and took a look and the valve timing had been altered. Keep in mind that this car has run perfectly ever since the transmission was replaced five years ago. The only CEL it's ever had was 5 years ago when I mounted the ESC without a tune. And the guy tells me the car came in with a CEL. What an effen liar. So he gave me a list of parts required which will cost $748.34. These are the chains, tensioners, guides,etc. All of these parts I pointed out to him are in perfect condition. So I accused him of fraud. And he told me to call Toyota Corporate. I did and they are supposedly working the case. If I ever get my car back I will give a full report on the BS they've been giving me. The story really is unbelievable.

Wait I am confused. Why are they replacing chains, guides and tensioners because of an over rev? On an over rev you aren't going to damage the chains, you would float the valves causing the valves to hit the pistons and bend them. Even then the chains would be unaffected. Sounds like they are scamming you for sure.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Why? What would it prove? To track failures without knowing the number of successes is dirty data. It is worse than meaningless since it does not consider all the possibilities. Even if we could track the failures vs the successes on here it would still be meaningless since we are just too small a sample size to compile any form of accurate statistics.
It is indisputable that there have been some problems but to emphasize those issues while ignoring the successes is nothing but fear mongering and irresponsible.
Everybody needs to just take a step back, take a big breath and relax. Going on a quest to find issues only will result in finding only the issues and not the reality of the situation.

If I had the recall done and then had a rod bearing failure and they tried to pin it on me I damn sure would love to have a list of others with the same scenario so we could band together. I don't think people are looking to build statistics as much as just have a list of victims to reach out to. Especially if there is one particular dealer having multiple failures. People could band together to pressure the dealer into doing the right thing and not stick it to the owners.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by maslin

They may be suggesting to delay it a bit, I doubt they can outright refuse to perform a federal recall.

Might be better to push the issue, 99% chance you'll get a new engine! (going by the broad sample size here).

Broad sample size? There were 26,000 Twins in the recall. I doubt we have more than 100 different people that have posted here. Of those maybe 30 have said they had the work done so far. There are now 5 reported issues. I don't know how you define "broad" but I doubt a sample size of .12% meets the term.


Those that have failures should push the issue and should get their cars repaired properly if the repair caused that issue.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

If I had the recall done and then had a rod bearing failure and they tried to pin it on me I damn sure would love to have a list of others with the same scenario so we could band together. I don't think people are looking to build statistics as much as just have a list of victims to reach out to. Especially if there is one particular dealer having multiple failures. People could band together to pressure the dealer into doing the right thing and not stick it to the owners.

Agreed. However I doubt the Toyota lawyers would put much importance on such a list though. The attempt to "pressure" the dealers could backfire and end up with nobody getting shit from them. I think we will see that Toyota and Subaru will repair the damaged engines without to much of a fight. They are already getting enough bad press they will not want more.


My statements are not to lay down and take it nor that it is somehow OK that these failures have happened but simply that the failures are not as common as people are making it out to be and people should not be afraid to have the work done.
As far as I know the only people being forced to have it done are the California owners. The rest can walk away if they wish. I know that if my car was involved I would not bother to have the work done just because at my mileage if it hasn't broke it isn't likely too so why bother?

[DarkSideFRS]

gonna wait til the last minute (before my CA registration is due) to do the recall... and will prob do an oil change at the dealer before the recall work so that they have prior record of my car getting serviced... all in all, i hope they mess my motor up.. a new motor would be nice

[DarkPira7e]

Wanted to leave an update, they tore the engine down yesterday and found that it ate a rod bearing. Toyota of America told them not to touch the car (service consultant's words exactly), they are sending a master tech from another state to determine next steps.

Feels like they are acknowledging that this repair need attention from someone who is well versed and can be held to a higher standard. I'll update as need be. For what it's worth, I went into this expecting issues, I'm glad I can take the time to update you guys on my personal experience. I have a great relationship with this dealership so far, but I am not afraid to stand my own. As much as I'd love to ask for more, I'm going to see what they're doing first and push back only when I feel I'm not getting what I deserve.

For reference, my car has catless aftermarket headers, and a tune through BRZedit. My oil cooler was removed for the valve spring work and I did not re-install ( thank heavens). If they push back on me for aftermarket modifications, I will immediately escalate to management and be reasonable, but assertive. I suggest anyone else in this situation to do the same. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Be reasonable, especially when you're expecting something for free.

[venturaII]

And people wonder why I'm hesitant to have this work done... It's not because of the repair procedure itself being flawed; it's because of the immense range of experience, expertise, and quality of work, depending on what dealership is used and which technician gets the job. My local Toyota dealer is trying hard to get me scheduled for this work, but there's no way in hell I'm signing up for this until horror stories like this are a thing of the past.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by venturaII

And people wonder why I'm hesitant to have this work done... It's not because of the repair procedure itself being flawed; it's because of the immense range of experience, expertise, and quality of work, depending on what dealership is used and which technician gets the job. My local Toyota dealer is trying hard to get me scheduled for this work, but there's no way in hell I'm signing up for this until horror stories like this are a thing of the past.

See that's it. There are probably 100s of people that have had no issues but we don't hear from them.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

See that's it. There are probably 100s of people that have had no issues but we don't hear from them.

Honestly, I don't care. I'm concerned about the potential for failure, not success. Toyobaru have developed a repair that I'm sure is solid, PROVIDED it is carried out to the letter. The problem is that with the high degree of variability in dealership technicians (and dealers themselves), it would seem that it's quite easy to fuck this repair process up, and with catastrophic results.

Something needs to be improved before I'm on board with having this work done. Whether it's an improved procedure that is less prone to fucking up, or if it's just techs learning how it actually has to be done..

[ermax]

Originally Posted by DarkSideFRS

gonna wait til the last minute (before my CA registration is due) to do the recall... and will prob do an oil change at the dealer before the recall work so that they have prior record of my car getting serviced... all in all, i hope they mess my motor up.. a new motor would be nice

Great advice on that oil change at the dealer!

[ermax]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

Wanted to leave an update, they tore the engine down yesterday and found that it ate a rod bearing. Toyota of America told them not to touch the car (service consultant's words exactly), they are sending a master tech from another state to determine next steps.

This sounds promising not just for you but anyone planning to get this job done. Hopefully they will take this route on all failures going forward and find a common cause and potentially eliminate all future failures. My suspicion is it's the application of the packing seal but I don't know how they could improve on that much. It simply takes attention to detail to not mess it up. It also requires proper clean up prior to re-applying. You can write it in bigger letters in the instructions but it's still up to the tech to take it serious. If they developed some fancy gun with special guide to make it harder to mess up the application then maybe it could be dummy proofed. I doubt this would happen though.