Best handling car?

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I was serious, then I though of a couple other cars that handles even better.

Lotus Exige and Ariel Atom.

Except for the above 2, handicap any high dollar car you can think of to the same power to weight ratio and tires as the MX-5 and it will kick their asses around any twisty track or road and hand it back to them.

Power to weight ratio is one thing, but you can't simplify handling like that. A significantly heavier car (than the Miata), even with an identical power to weight ratio, requires larger tires for the larger forces placed on them (from the increased weight and power). Things just aren't that simple.

Regardless, off the top of my head I feel confident in saying that the S2000, Boxster, Cayman & FT86 will all beat a miata around the track if wearing I guess similar footwear and power to weight ratio.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Power to weight ratio is one thing, but you can't simplify handling like that. A significantly heavier car (than the Miata), even with an identical power to weight ratio, requires larger tires for the larger forces placed on them (from the increased weight and power). Things just aren't that simple.

Regardless, off the top of my head I feel confident in saying that the S2000, Boxster, Cayman & FT86 will all beat a miata around the track if wearing I guess similar footwear and power to weight ratio.

I didn't mean the tire size, but tire compound. Of course, there are many more variables to consider even in regards to tire size and compound. There are even more different variables to consider how one person would define a good or great handling car versus another person.

When you ask about "handling" this can be a very subjective matter. One car may be great at "handling" kart track sized corners and another may be fantastic at the larger, faster corners. For instance the GTR may be great around a place like the nurburgring that will reward high speed cornering stability and acceleration. Now, run it around a super tight mountain road that doesn't have any part on it that will let you benefit from its power or stability then it probably won't go very fast compared to some smaller, lower powered cars. Conversely, if you take a shifter kart on a big track it probably wouldn't do to well, but run it on a kart track or said mountain road, it will probably smoke that GTR pretty good. So which is the better handling car? GTR or shifter kart?

Do you seriously think that a 275HPS Porsche Cayman detuned to put down 160HPS will out "handle" a 128HPS Miata ('95 R-PKG Miata)? I doubt it...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I was serious, then I though of a couple other cars that handles even better.

Lotus Exige and Ariel Atom.

Except for the above 2, handicap any high dollar car you can think of to the same power to weight ratio and tires as the MX-5 and it will kick their asses around any twisty track or road and hand it back to them.

Atoms handle well at low speeds. They're terrible over 80-100.

I did lap SoWS in 1:21 in one, but it had a turbocharged K20. For some god-forsaken reason, the owner had V12's on instead of R888 or something reasonable (for that car).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I didn't mean the tire size, but tire compound. Of course, there are many more variables to consider even in regards to tire size and compound. There are even more different variables to consider how one person would define a good or great handling car versus another person.

When you ask about "handling" this can be a very subjective matter. One car may be great at "handling" kart track sized corners and another may be fantastic at the larger, faster corners. For instance the GTR may be great around a place like the nurburgring that will reward high speed cornering stability and acceleration. Now, run it around a super tight mountain road that doesn't have any part on it that will let you benefit from its power or stability then it probably won't go very fast compared to some smaller, lower powered cars. Conversely, if you take a shifter kart on a big track it probably wouldn't do to well, but run it on a kart track or said mountain road, it will probably smoke that GTR pretty good. So which is the better handling car? GTR or shifter kart?

Do you seriously think that a 275HPS Porsche Cayman detuned to put down 160HPS will out "handle" a 128HPS Miata ('95 R-PKG Miata)? I doubt it...

I've timed myself at our local twisty (I'm pretty sure you know which one)... the GT-R is still faster.

Don't believe everything you see on Initial-D :p

Yes, that Cayman will still be faster. Power levels are low enough that power is primarily the limiting factor, even on the tightest, slowest courses. I've done something similar; we artificially restricted a S2k to about 160hp and ran it against a Miata. It lost less than 1.5 seconds at Buttonwillow.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I would disagree. The dynamic of the FR-S/BRZ is far different from the S2k and RX-8.

Care to elaborate?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ayau

Care to elaborate?

The FR-S/BRZ drives surprisingly similar to an Evo/Sti, but with less push.

Guess what they all have in common?

[ayau]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The FR-S/BRZ drives surprisingly similar to an Evo/Sti, but with less push.

Guess what they all have in common?

MacPherson struts

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The FR-S/BRZ drives surprisingly similar to an Evo/Sti, but with less push.

Guess what they all have in common?

I'm gonna get crucified for this aren't I...

[ayau]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'm gonna get crucified for this aren't I...

[VoiD]

I had a '99 sport pkg miata and a set of coilovers and larger front sway bar did wonders..so far best handling car I've driven.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The FR-S/BRZ drives surprisingly similar to an Evo/Sti, but with less push.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'm gonna get crucified for this aren't I...

In my experience in dozens of cars at the track, I find that FR cars like the 240Z, 240SX, FD, S2000 handle remarkably similarly (with the notable exception of the AP1, due to rear toe shenanigans), and QUITE differently from more forward-biased awd cars.

Wishbones are great and all, but struts are often severely underrated if not discounted out of hand. For sure my 240Z will outhandle rings around (inside?) my S2000 and FD! Once sorted, struts don't hurt that car's handling performance much if at all, and the feel is *VERY* much classic cab-rearward FR just like the AP2 and FD (again, AP1 is a special, weird case). WAY different handling feel from the STi, that's for sure!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

In my experience in dozens of cars at the track, I find that FR cars like the 240Z, 240SX, FD, S2000 handle remarkably similarly (with the notable exception of the AP1, due to rear toe shenanigans), and QUITE differently from more forward-biased awd cars.

Wishbones are great and all, but struts are often severely underrated if not discounted out of hand. For sure my 240Z will outhandle rings around (inside?) my S2000 and FD! Once sorted, struts don't hurt that car's handling performance much if at all, and the feel is *VERY* much classic cab-rearward FR just like the AP2 and FD (again, AP1 is a special, weird case). WAY different handling feel from the STi, that's for sure!

I may have set up some unusual STis....

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Do you seriously think that a 275HPS Porsche Cayman detuned to put down 160HPS will out "handle" a 128HPS Miata ('95 R-PKG Miata)? I doubt it...

I'd put a lot of money on it, actually. The miata isn't bad, but it isn't anything near as good as a Cayman, in my opinion, and it's not just the power. The feel, the stability at speed, the quickness of turn-in, and the ability to place it exactly where you want in a corner every time all favor the Cayman over the Miata (in my opinion). I haven't driven a 95 miata, admittedly, but I have driven a more recent miata, and it isn't as good all around as my Cayman is, even ignoring straight line performance (and honestly, if a Miata were as good as a Cayman in every way except power, I wouldn't own a Cayman right now). From what I've heard, I'd expect an S2000 to beat it as well (but I haven't driven one), and a Lotus Elise would be excellent with a Miata's power to weight ratio as well.


Out of curiosity, have you ever driven a Cayman or Lotus?