Toyota rep at Frankfurt IAA said FT-86 weight will be 1,160kg (2,555 pounds)

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by pastuch

Expectations have changed for the worst. People think cars should ALWAYS have power steering, airbags and fucking automatic transmissions. The more throw-back this car is the better (with the exception of the stereo).

I don't care if the 0 to 60 time is 7 seconds, as long as it feels fast.

Note: A 370z FEELS SLOW to me compared to a Miata that is half the speed.

Welcome to the real world where safety matters more than performance. Cars are appliances and enthusiasts are a dying breed. I'd rather have it this way though, since a large portion of people on the road don't have a clue what they're doing.

Though I completely disagree. I drove an NC2 Miata and a 370Z back to back, and the Z feels worlds faster. If you want to feel fast, buy something old. I like a mix in between. I like to feel and go fast. I could floor the hell out of my Yaris and zip around town, but I wasn't fooling myself.

[MannyO]

Originally Posted by suprachica79

Edit - One of the cars I've always loved regardless of its unreliability is the 95-98 Eagle Talon TSI. It was 2800lbs and 210hp with the turbo model and I always thought it was quick enough for me so the FR-S should be quicker.

:happy0180: I'm at 280 right now with my 2G GSX...just a little more than stock haha. It tips the scales at around 3100 though because of the AWD.

[pastuch]

I will say the 370z and G37 have better feeling manual transmissions than the 350z and the G35 but it's not nearly enough improvement for me to waste more money on their products. Of the two I liked the changes to the G37 interior a lot. A Mazda RX8 still has a 10 times better feeling clutch and stick than a 370z. I frequently imagine how great the RX8 would be without a rotary in it. My Dads 2004 drove great (When it started!).

My G35 was a total nightmare from a reliability standpoint. Both power door locks failed, the power seats failed, the door seals cracked and had to be replaced three times which made for the worst wind noise and tire roar I've ever heard, the leather on the steering wheel was peeling, both windows leaked at every car wash, the exhaust had holes in it before 100k. I had a full (Expensive) inspection done on the car before I bought it but they failed to test all the electronics. I owned that car for less than 2 years and put less than 20000 kms on it and every day was a new nightmare. It had 70000kms when I bought it. Infiniti dealer service is worse than Hyundais which I honestly didn't think was possible. My parents have a 2008 FX35 which is an excellent car with no issues so I probably got a lemon but a lot of went went wrong with my G is common for that model.

I've driven three 350zs and they were all disappointing. One 2006 with 20000kms, it looked like new but still failed to impress me at all. It's the same shitty clutch and stick it's had since 2003. My best friend, a car dealer has a 2004 convertible and it's even more portly and unbalanced. I also drove a 2003 with about 90000kms and the whole thing was falling apart.

I have a good job and I can afford to buy more expensive cars, the problem is that I hate everything newer than 1994.

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Welcome to the real world where safety matters more than performance. Cars are appliances and enthusiasts are a dying breed. I'd rather have it this way though, since a large portion of people on the road don't have a clue what they're doing.

Though I completely disagree. I drove an NC2 Miata and a 370Z back to back, and the Z feels worlds faster. If you want to feel fast, buy something old. I like a mix in between. I like to feel and go fast. I could floor the hell out of my Yaris and zip around town, but I wasn't fooling myself.

The new Miata is a pig. The Yaris is a front wheel drive econobox. Not a fair comparison.

If I cared about 0 to 60 and quarter mile times I'd import a 370z-raping Mustang Boss 302 from the USA. A 2011 Mustang GT BASE can be had for $28k and it will still be .1 seconds faster to 60 than a 370z but honestly who gives a fuck. The 370z is an absolutely beautiful (but flawed) car with the sexiest production rims on earth. Seriously, those Rays give me fits. They make my buddies 350z look like a newer car. EDIT #2: The 370z test drive was partially ruined by the horrible sales person. He was condescending, uninformed and overall very rude. He assumed I couldn't afford the car and treated me as such (I can but it would be a stretch). My Dad golfs with the Nissan dealership owner but I didn't say anything about the sales guy... I didn't like the car anyway. I got to see his GT-R last weekend... WOW! His mansion in Florida has a gas truck deliver fuel to the house for their half million dollar boat. Now that's living!

Nissan hates Canada: A BASE 370z is $40800 here. The exact same car in the US is 31450.

EDIT: Huge props to Hyundai, they offer cash rebates in Canada so their cars are actually cheaper/same price here as they are in the US. Hyundai just became the number 2 auto seller in Canada. Audi, Nissan, Infinity and Subaru shit on Canadians every chance they get. Ford and Toyota have done a better job adjusting for the fact that we are the only G8 country with a sound financial management system. BMW is pretty bad for markup but not even close to Audi. When our dollar was 1.05 US Audi was charging a $10000 premium on average for every model. My tenant, a 25 year old hot blond, just picked up an 09 A4 convertible with 14000 miles from a dealer in the US for 31k to replace the same car that was totaled. She made almost $10000 off insurance because the average selling price for Audis in Canada is so much higher than the US.

[SUB-FT86]

I think the reason you think the miata is fast is because 4 cylinder engines make a shit ton of noises but when you look at the mph you are going nowhere fast. My RSX and other light cars I've driven is known for that. When I test drove a Z I was being very soft on the pedal and I was doing 90 mph and didn't even know it because the power was so smooth and the body is very solid at speed. With the Z I didn't have to rev it like mad man to go anywhere and it felt like I was in a wide go kart, but a go kart with actual real power. It had everything I asked of a sports car. Great power,handling,brakes and steering that did exactly what I want with a ton of road feel. I'm not saying a Miata will fail in all those things but I bet it will fail to impress me with that engines acceleration.

[ichitaka05]

Hm... I think both (SUB & pastuch) are not in same page... for which is fast anyways.

Tq band & rev limit might cause this debate. Both looking at different area for power to kick in. Along w weight shift might of felt quick/lighter for NC vs Z felt weight shift felt slower/heavier than NC.

But put the all the feeling a side, fact remain Z to be faster than NC:
Z (370z):
0-60: 4.9sec
1/4 mile: 13.3sec

Mx5 (NC):
0-60: 7.5sec
1/4 mile: 15.5sec

[spin9k]

I'm driving an RX-8. Not slow, but not fast either, esp. on track >100mph, where I have lots of experience patiently watching the speed-o-meter do something. Let's do some math...

FT-86 2257lbs/200hp = 11.28
RX-8 3050lbs/237hp = 12.86 1/4m 14.5 0-60 ~6sec

So the 11.28 number sounds a tiny bit better, although far from really fast, and far far from Porsche territory. Torque is important too, and the RX-8 has only 159lb-ft which is why people feel it's slow off the line, with no big push in the backside. I'm guessing the FT-86 won't be far better than that but the lighter weight will help a lot.

Real dyno RWHP will be what I'm keen to see... and last the transmission and overall final gearing will be paramount to real world performance - do it right and it could be a fast, esp. under 100mph. Do it with long legs and zzzzzzzzzzz.....

Now handling with such light weight "should" be stellar, and like in the RX-8, should be one of the best attributes of the car, straight line performance aside. Let's hope for the best, as I don't think the world really needs/wants annother Miata.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by fatoni

serious? trying to compare the production frs to the prototypes and an isf doesnt make anything plausable. not unless you expect a price tag thats comparable. budget sports cars dont come with brembos, bilsteins, forged rims and have to appeal to a much bigger audience than the few who dont want any sound deadening.

The Cobalt SS had forged wheels and 4 pot brembos on 12.4" rotors up front and 11.5" rotors in back (with single pistons only in back). It was $20k new and faster than the ISF at VIR with C&D drivers.

Sound deadening can be removed easily enough, especially when a car is new so having to remove it if I wanted to doesn't concern me.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by KAuss

we took the G35C a bit harder than we have the 350Z... Amazingly, the G35C was more enjoyable... Not sure if the refinement hid some of the weight flaws, or was it the easier to navigate blind spots from the better car design... But we enjoyed it more than the 350Z...

I agree, and for me it was expectations. I actually drove a 6MT G35C first, and thought it was decent. Liked a lot about it but absolutely hated the seats and the fact there there was no chance in hell I'd be able to wear a helmet in the car without opening the sunroof (a complaint I had with my Integra GS-R at the time already). The G35C also seemed.. confused I guess for lack of a better way of saying it. Sometimes when beating on it the car felt soft and floaty, exactly how it shouldn't feel as a sports coupe, and then when just driving it around town like normal it felt harsh and overly stiff.. it was just kind of weird.

Then the 350Z Track, it was a huge disappointment. Now I don't think it was much, if any, different from the G35C but I *EXPECTED* it to be so much more than the G35C and it failed at that.

The 350Z Nismo and 370Z Nismo though.. those are nice.. although the 350Z Nismo is possible the most annoying resonating stock street car I've ever driven.. until you want to have fun with it

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Go to the doctor immediately. Something must be seriously wrong with you!!!

Not really. You get the rush from the torque but no sensation of speed.

As Ichi above said, you are both talking about different things. He's talking about the sensation of speed, you are talking about pure numbers and the feeling of torque

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Not really. You get the rush from the torque but no sensation of speed.

As Ichi above said, you are both talking about different things. He's talking about the sensation of speed, you are talking about pure numbers and the feeling of torque

High-five!

The NA Miata is the slowest car I've ever owned. My Toyota Previa mini-van, rear wheel drive, was actually about the same speed. That being said, it's still more fun as a daily driver than anything else I've ever had or driven. My Dad won't let me borrow the 1994 Porsche 911 C2 he just bought, something tells me I am going to worship that car.

[Dave-ROR]

964s are fun Porsches, a lot of the improvements in suspension and transmission over the older cars but still air cooled goodness Granted I've only driven 964 RS Americas and C4s and never the normal C2. Assuming you can drive responisbly I don't see why he wouldn't let you take it for a spin, you have to try pretty hard to screw up in one :P

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Aesthetics are aesthetics, by definition it contributes nothing to the performance (sport or not) of the car.

I don't know about that. The aesthetics of a car is the foundation of automotive design and the plays a roll in determining how sporty a vehicle is. Aerodynamics and ergonomics are correlated with performance, unless you like wind resistance and tons of drag.

[SUB-FT86]

Dave you are so wrong. The Z isnt about big torque and small hp numbers. It isnt a diesel 2.0t. I feel no sensation of speed? Lmfao @ that part.