10-05-2015, 03:08 PM | #729 | |
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In addition, there is currently no differentiation in the sales numbers between the current NCs and NDs that are being reported on sites such as goodcarbadcar.com.
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10-05-2015, 08:03 PM | #730 | |
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10-06-2015, 12:21 AM | #731 |
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10-06-2015, 12:23 PM | #732 | ||
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I wish they could sell more 86's, I would love them to be able to hit 100,000 sales a year in the US, because that would give them enough to make turbo and other versions of the car. Unfortunately two door cars just don't sell that much. There is a reason nearly every manufacturer from Subaru to VW to Ford is bringing out there non muscle car sporty cars with 4 doors. Quote:
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10-06-2015, 12:38 PM | #733 | ||
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10-06-2015, 01:58 PM | #734 | |
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And you can't get the Recaros in the US at all for some damn reason (at least for 2016).
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10-07-2015, 12:09 PM | #735 |
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Not going to respond directly to each person but here are some realities of the auto industry that outsiders frequently do not grasp.
In no particular order: 1) Autos sell more often then manuals - We enthusiasts that love our MTs are the exception not the rule. The vast majority of the car buying public buy a car to get from point A to point B and just don't give a crap if they are "more connected" or any of the other MT proponents arguments. 2) Manufacturers make exactly the number of cars each year that their business plan called for - Regardless of if a car sells over or under expectations they follow the plan. End of story. The planned number is not a random guess but a very carefully researched and thought out goal with numbers set for years ahead. Even if everything that they made is sitting unsold in a storage compound or all of the production run is sold before it comes off the line they are not going to change the numbers mid plan. 3) It can take 2 or 3 years to increase or decrease the numbers produced - It is not just a matter of flipping a switch and turning the production up or down. Every single aspect from assembly line availability to the parts supply have been planned for years and even a slight change can take an unbelievable amount of time and cash. Contracts with the suppliers that make everything from trim washers to full body shells specify exactly how many of each are expected and to increase or decrease that number is going to cost the manufacturer big bucks. The supply of parts is in a delicate balance and anybody that has ever had to be involved in building and tooling a plant from scratch will know exactly how complex this is. Car manufacturers these days should really be called "assemblers" since they rarely actually make many of the parts themselves anymore. 4) Comparing the big volume "muscle cars" to specialty cars is ridiculous - The vast majority of the Mustangs and Camaros ever built were not the muscle versions but the base line "hairdresser" ones. These cars are little more then 2 door econoboxes that just look like their performance brethren. There are 100s of every lower level of these cars for each performance level one. If you only considered the true, factory made performance, versions then the sales numbers would drop to a level that you would ask if it was worth it to make them at all. 5) If more sold then we would get the turbo, convertible, targa, etc - No, no and no. If such models were planned they would already be on a secret agenda someplace and how many sold to that point would not change it. I say again that the manufactures don't just randomly decide what they are doing from year to year and they have far more qualified people to determine what will sell (in numbers that make a profit) then a bunch of random armchair marketers on a forum. I know this will ruffle feathers and a dozen people will tell me I am wrong but after almost 30 years in the Tier 1 automotive parts manufacturing business I can assure you that this is the real world like it or not.
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10-07-2015, 01:22 PM | #736 | |
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This forum is biased towards those that did end up with the twins. The strong point of the twins is in driving feel. So if that is your most important priority, of course you wouldn't really cross shop the mustang and camaro. it would be more the miata, used s2k, etc. If, however, you go to the mustang and camaro forums, you will see there are tons of people that cross-shoped them and the twins, where driving feel wasn't the highest priority. Maybe the engine was a bigger priority. Where they ended up buying a mustang/camaro instead. |
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10-07-2015, 01:25 PM | #737 | |
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I should have been more clear and said "comparing sales numbers of...". It wasn't the cars themselves but their volumes that I was speaking to.
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10-07-2015, 01:53 PM | #738 | |
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There was a lot of aggravation when the Launch Edition MX-5s became available for pre-order, because the manuals sold out in minutes while automatics remained available for weeks. The allocation was roughly 50/50, because Mazda used NC sales as a predictor, and NCs were roughly 50/50 manual/auto over its lifetime. But people interested in Launch Edition cars, and people interested in the first MY, aren't the same audience as people who bought NCs over the last 10 years. |
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10-07-2015, 01:57 PM | #739 | |
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10-07-2015, 09:02 PM | #740 |
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That is interesting info. Sounds like you have a cool job, you just seem to travel a ton.
The only thing I would disagree on is point 5. I think the show cars proved they were on a secret agenda somewhere, and while yes it could take years for them to change that agenda, it has been years, and if they had planned on introducing new models at the mid cycle refresh that is plenty of time to change things. I don't think they ever expected to introduce all the models up front, but I do expect they would introduce the 86 and give it some indeterminate amount of time and see what happened before they planned on introducing sub models. I understand we could be talking about 5 years or more here, and I understand it is more than simple sales figures that would go into that decision. It is also too early to say they ruled them out. I also think that when the president of a company says to do something people below him will jump through all sorts of hurdles to do it, since that is what happened with the 86 to begin with. Of course they know what they are doing more than we do, I hope no one would be dumb enough to argue against that. I could argue against point 4 as well. While bottom of the line muscle cars are not super performance cars, neither is the 86. Pretty sure every current base muscle car is more powerful than our car. To simply call them hairdresser cars is the same as every imbecile everywhere that says the 86 is under powered. For every person that could afford to buy a brand new top of the line muscle car, I am sure there were a few that just didn't think it was worth it for whatever reason. That I agree with completely. The majority of most cars, even sports cars, go to "Joe/Jill Average" and not car enthusiast. |
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10-07-2015, 09:35 PM | #741 | |
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I do have a very cool job and yes I travel a pile. Never to cool places though it is always somewhere like Detroit or Butfeck Illinois. The thing for the big changes is that they pretty much said outright from the very beginning that they would never be doing a high HP version. I don't think (opinion alert) that it was ever in the plan or that it ever will be. It seems to us here that there are loads of people screaming for them but the real numbers are probably way below a profit point. I wasn't very clear when I spoke of the muscle cars. I was not meaning to imply that they were low powered or poor performers just that they are not the big name versions of legend. They are the bread and butter of the industry for those that want the name, style, history, etc of the cars but don't care about the performance. I was not comparing them to the 86 in function but just illustrating the point that if the only versions that existed were the performance ones than even the Mustang would be a low production car. Be sort of like if the twins were just upgraded Corollas then they would have that huge volume base model for the average person and the short run performance version for those that wanted it. Since 86 does not have this high volume version it stands alone as a low production car.
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10-07-2015, 09:51 PM | #742 | |
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Agree with the rest. Still waiting on the rumored lower powered version of the 86 that unfortunately never came. Not sure even if they did choose to add a turbo it would be "high hp" by anyone's definition, I almost would love to see them introduce a new turbo 86 with 220 hp and 220 lb/ft of torque just to laugh at all the people who freak about how that still isn't enough power. And then they'd freak about the $30-$35k price tag attached to it. And they still wouldn't buy a new 86. Damn I just wish they'd stop ruining our currency. |
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