Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[Packofcrows]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

This is disappointing. The worse the new Miata's sales are, the less likely other companies will enter the lightweight RWD sports car market.

Well the Miata has a lot of problems.

1) It is based to be a sports car, but not one. (not legitimate, and im fine with it. I like em)
2) 2 seater is amazing but in today's world, we need least 4 seater even if the rear seats only sit legless midgets. Can't just throw family in trunk....or can you? haha
3) Price is not attractive (coming from local dealer when I was looking for a twin @$25k. Would sell better at about $20k)
4) It has outlived its popularity and undergone its lifecycle. (running for 26yrs now! Even Corolla has changed how it looks a lot more often!)
5) RWD generally from my experience and what I'm seeing online, gets worse MPG than FWD. AWD is even worse. Something like 28/38 FWD, 20/30 RWD and 18/25 AWD.

People who know nothing about anything just base their decisions on what vehicle to buy based off of word of mouth and commercials. This is about 80% of car buyers that purchase a vehicle under $50k.

For example, two doors down, guy bought a Mazda6 (?) based on MPG @ hwy (40), then his sister bought a Mazda3 based on sitting capacity. Front door neighbors bought a Camaro because bumblebee and front neighbor to my right got a RX-8 because someone sick of issues with it sold it for like $2k to him. He never drives the 8 due to mpg issues and he broke the driver side window elevator.

If the twins came out in Tokyo drift 2 or there was more a lot more advertising, the sells would increase. If they add a turbo 220whp, bam! Increase.

Remember though, many RWD are for enthusiasts or classicists of the 80's and older.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by TRZ

Not sure if this was already covered, but Car and Driver published their annual lightning lap times which included the 2016 Miata. It ran a 3:20.8 which was interesting since the BRZ ran a 3:18.6 in 2013.

In late 2013, the track was repaved and a changed in some places. I believe it is a faster track now. In other words, the times are not exactly comparable.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'm hoping the Miata's sales numbers are due to limited supply.

They're on track to sell more Miata's in a calendar year than they have since 2008 and that's only starting the new model in August so 4 months of sales bump, likely similar to the 2005 introduction of the NC, yeah not setting the world on fire but not exactly a failure.

If demand is really strong we won't see factory adjustment for a few months at the soonest.

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

1) It is based to be a sports car, but not one. (not legitimate, and im fine with it. I like em)

Miata is literally the only true "sports car" available today.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Chad11491

I would think the miata sales would not impact a "hardcore" sports car (not knocking the miata at all). The casual buyer sees oh look, cute convertible, or my god, 155hp? My camaro blah blah blah. The enthusiasts see a good handling toy to take to the track. A rx-7, or mx-7, whatever, with a hardtop coupe shape that taller people can actually comfortably fit in and an actual trunk space you can live with (in comparison to the miata) and maybe ~300hp 3000lb or a hair less (one can dream lol) with good handling and 0-60 numbers would yield a much higher casual buyer market, and enthusiasts would love it too.

Contrary to the legions of jalopnik, miata is not always the answer, as good as they are.

A club spec, 155 hp Miata already costs $30k MSRP. The problem I see with a 300 hp hardtop version is that it will cost $35-$40k. I think that's an even harder sell to the casual buyer market when base I4T/V6 pony cars these days come with 300 hp at $10-15k cheaper and have a Ford/Chevy badge standard.

If the "return to lightweight" ND Miata were selling like hotcakes, I could see Mazda considering an RX-7, but at this rate I'm not sure it will happen. Crossing my fingers that Mazda will take a risk though.

Originally Posted by TRZ

Not sure if this was already covered, but Car and Driver published their annual lightning lap times which included the 2016 Miata. It ran a 3:20.8 which was interesting since the BRZ ran a 3:18.6 in 2013.

There are other tracks where the ND Miata beat out the Twins (e.g., Streets of Willow, Laguna Seca). And then there are tracks where the two are about equal (Bedford Autodrome West). The club spec Miatas are a really close match to the Twins, but seems to vary by track.

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

Well the Miata has a lot of problems.

1) It is based to be a sports car, but not one. (not legitimate, and im fine with it. I like em)

If the twins came out in Tokyo drift 2 or there was more a lot more advertising, the sells would increase. If they add a turbo 220whp, bam! Increase.

As Strat mentioned above, I consider the Miata to be one of the most legit sports cars today. Lightweight RWD 2-seat roadster.

I think a 220whp turbo version has sales potential, but really comes down to price. If it's not well under $35k, I have my doubts.

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

In late 2013, the track was repaved and a changed in some places. I believe it is a faster track now. In other words, the times are not exactly comparable.

If anything that just means the ND Miata's time is even slower than the numbers indicate.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

They're on track to sell more Miata's in a calendar year than they have since 2008 and that's only starting the new model in August so 4 months of sales bump, likely similar to the 2005 introduction of the NC, yeah not setting the world on fire but not exactly a failure.

If demand is really strong we won't see factory adjustment for a few months at the soonest.

What worries me is that the ND Miata was supposed to set the world on fire. It is very close to the weight of the original Miata, but with a stouter engine and modern features. It's pretty much been universally praised by reviewers, but only on track to match the NC Miata's sales. The NC Miata was kind of the black sheep of the family, the one shunned by the Miata purists.

[EAGLE5]

I think the ND will sell well. I like the looks and the weight. It's a superior car to every earlier Miata. If there's a flaw, it's the overly floppy suspension. A harder-core version with tuned Billsteins and stiffer springs would probably be much faster. It's a hell of a candidate for an LS swap.

[why?]

look, cars are not going to sell like they use to. They are all too expensive, our economy is horrific, and two door cars are out of fashion with almost everyone.

If mazda figured out how to make a four door miata with the room of a mazda 3, it would sell like wildfire.

Miata enthusiasts probably won't buy new, they will all buy dirt cheap NA and NB's so they don't feel bad about chopping them up for a roll cage and won't feel bad wrecking them while racing.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by why?

look, cars are not going to sell like they use to. They are all too expensive, our economy is horrific, and two door cars are out of fashion with almost everyone.

Yeah... not sell like they used to. Sell way better than they used to. Didn't you look at recent car sales? Except for VW, they're pretty much all through the roof. Our economy is reasonably strong. Most everyone on this forum owns a two door. Go vote for Trump, hater.

Originally Posted by why?

If mazda figured out how to make a four door miata with the room of a mazda 3, it would sell like wildfire.

A 4 four door Miata with the room of a Mazda 3? How about a six door Ferrari with the room of a passenger van? A zero door bus with the room of a Mentos tin? How about a large, furless, grey bunny rabbit that weighs over a ton and has a prehensile trunk? You know, an elephant.

Originally Posted by why?

Miata enthusiasts probably won't buy new, they will all buy dirt cheap NA and NB's so they don't feel bad about chopping them up for a roll cage and won't feel bad wrecking them while racing.

Every single Miata was bought new at some point. Somebody had to do it.

You are comedic gold. Just gold.

[Packofcrows]

Took chat to PM. Thanks!~

[why?]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Yeah... not sell like they used to. Sell way better than they used to. Didn't you look at recent car sales? Except for VW, they're pretty much all through the roof. Our economy is reasonably strong. Most everyone on this forum owns a two door. Go vote for Trump, hater.

Cars are actually not selling like they use to, in fact SUVS/Crossovers outsold sedans for the first time in history.

Our economy sucks. We have a stock market that is making record highs by having some of the fewest number of trades ever. That is not good. We have more people not working now than since the Great Depression, we have a government that has more unemployment numbers then ever before. We have more government debt than in the known history of planet earth.

Yes everyone on this one forum owns a two door. How many have Toyota and Subaru sold combined so far? I guarantee Toyota sold more MK2 Supras in 1982 alone than both companies have sold 86/FRS/BRZ's in all years so far.

Or maybe you need to read a few post above mine when people are noting the new ND is barely beating sales of the NC, I guess a car everyone hated for some reason. Or maybe you need to go into sales data and see there is a reason why Subaru/Mitsubishi/Ford/etc are making all their sporting cars with 4 doors. Maybe it could be because almost no one is buying 2 door cars nowadays? Or maybe note that Porsche, Lamborghini,Maserati, et all are coming out with 4 door cars and SUV's because their mainline sporting 2 doors aren't selling as much as they would like.

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

A 4 four door Miata with the room of a Mazda 3? How about a six door Ferrari with the room of a passenger van? A zero door bus with the room of a Mentos tin? How about a large, furless, grey bunny rabbit that weighs over a ton and has a prehensile trunk? You know, an elephant.
Every single Miata was bought new at some point. Somebody had to do it.

You are comedic gold. Just gold.

Wow you are so brilliant, or did you mother have to give you that line?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by why?

Yes everyone on this one forum owns a two door. How many have Toyota and Subaru sold combined so far? I guarantee Toyota sold more MK2 Supras in 1982 alone than both companies have sold 86/FRS/BRZ's in all years so far.

Holy shit you're delusional.

Hemmings estimates ~114k Mk2 supras were sold in the US from 82-85, lets average that into 28.5k per year and US sales of the 86 are close to that currently averaging around 20-25k units per year, this year may see the first full calendar year of sales under 20k units and we've got a total of ~74k 86s sold so far in the US, given Japanese sports car trends of a minimum of 5 years I think it's safe to assume we have at least 2 years of sales left in the model without considering a refresh, I guarantee you there will be more 86s than Mk2 Supras on this continent.


http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/..._feature5.html

Should have picked first gen RX-7, they sold about 380k units over 6 years in the US.

Edit and these are just US numbers so if you include other regions you're off base by like a factor of four or five given that the 86 hit 100k units produced globally over a year ago

[swarb]

I just ignore the troll.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by swarb

I just ignore the troll.

But petty internet arguments with numbers that are easy to look up and find evidence for get my **** hard.

[why?]

are you sure those are the right numbers? I've seen that Toyota claims they sold 245000 or so 1982 Toyota Supras. I couldn't find any sales figures on the net for them now.

The point still stands, 100,000 cars in 3 or 4 years is terrible for everything that is not a two door car. And it is terrible compared to Mustangs and other muscle cars.

they just don't sell like they use to.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by why?

are you sure those are the right numbers? I've seen that Toyota claims they sold 245000 or so 1982 Toyota Supras. I couldn't find any sales figures on the net for them now.

The point still stands, 100,000 cars in 3 or 4 years is terrible for everything that is not a two door car. And it is terrible compared to Mustangs and other muscle cars.

they just don't sell like they use to.

Well I've got a source and you don't. Pics or it didn't happen. Your numbers are not unbelievable if you include Celica's and worldwide sales, or if that's all Mk2 Supra's worldwide from '82-'85.

Toyota and Subaru optimistically targeted 100k units per year worldwide, I suppose your business sense is vastly superior to theirs, you should have rushed to their aid in 2012 to tell them that those numbers are garbage and they never should have made the car with expectations so low.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4283

The only public announcement of worldwide 86 production numbers came from March of '14, where they claim they have already surpassed 100k, that comes in under the 2 year mark.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60082