Sprintex or Vortech, which setup has more potential?

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Toni has my rev limiter at 8000 RPM on my FA20club tune just like Visconti did. I have been running to 8000 RPM for 15,000 miles now.

Why though? Your torque peak was at 5700 ish I thought.

I really hate YouTube Dynos, you have an updated one by chance?

[phloozy]

I think the first step is to forget this numbers game. Both kits will be a great match for this car. The car was designed to take corners like a champ not to be an outlet for dyno readings and **** waving. Want big numbers, go turbo. Don't want to be checking under your hood every other week or worry about your clutch and tire grip, go for the SC that works for you financially.

I have trouble keeping my wheels on the ground with e85 and stock exhaust on the innovate kit. Add a smaller pulley to the equation and I will be left where this car was never supposed to go, too much power to have fun flinging around local roads.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Why though? Your torque peak was at 5700 ish I thought.

I really hate YouTube Dynos, you have an updated one by chance?

Area under the curve and how many revs are dropped during a shift. When I shift at 8000 RPM I generally fall down to around 5800 RPM I believe. That lets me utilize the largest hump of my horsepower curve. My dynos aren't on YouTube. They are images I made in Dynojet's WinPEP software:

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Read your post again and realize what you just said.

OK, should have said "continues to climb in a linear fashion"? Upon further inspection it doesn't increase that much after 7400rpm, but it does increase.

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by phloozy

I think the first step is to forget this numbers game. Both kits will be a great match for this car. The car was designed to take corners like a champ not to be an outlet for dyno readings and **** waving. Want big numbers, go turbo. Don't want to be checking under your hood every other week or worry about your clutch and tire grip, go for the SC that works for you financially.

I have trouble keeping my wheels on the ground with e85 and stock exhaust on the innovate kit. Add a smaller pulley to the equation and I will be left where this car was never supposed to go, too much power to have fun flinging around local roads.

Completely disagree, even with bigger stickier tires I still can drift a corner at 20mph. It's just now I can pass cars on a dotted back country road.

[phloozy]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Completely disagree, even with bigger stickier tires I still can drift a corner at 20mph. It's just now I can pass cars on a dotted back country road.

Oh my problem is im always drifting now lol

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

OK, should have said "continues to climb in a linear fashion"? Upon further inspection it doesn't increase that much after 7400rpm, but it does increase.

No I was more of hinting you were recommending some visconti has done as a good idea.

King tuts answer is so far the only reason that I think is suitable at this point, higher rev shift drops him into his power band, so I'd take that on a case by case basis.

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Area under the curve and how many revs are dropped during a shift. When I shift at 8000 RPM I generally fall down to around 5800 RPM I believe. That lets me utilize the largest hump of my horsepower curve. My dynos aren't on YouTube. They are images I made in Dynojet's WinPEP software:

You need to update your signature my friend, I followed it to your build post, which lead me to a YouTube dyno, with no actual dyno on it.

Also why did you part ways with visconti?

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Any chance can I get you to break down that formula into designations, mainly I don't know why you divide psi by 229.

It's derived to give result Power in Horsepower units, I'd have to dig out my fluid dynamic text.

Actually its (CFM x PSI)/229. sorry. so either variable has equal effect.

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by Robftss

It's derived to give result Power in Horsepower units, I'd have to dig out my fluid dynamic text.

Actually its (CFM x PSI)/229. sorry. so either variable has equal effect.

You know what course an electrical engineer doesn't have to take... Going back for my masters so maybe I'll dip into the mechanical side of the house, I think it would be helpful in my gear wrenching.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

This is incredibly messy Dezoris what are you doing.

I am starting to think you are getting very biased...

You don't need E85 to reach 220 whp on the twin screw. I almost reached that with 91 octane (216) with just a cat back.

93 octane to reach 205 whp?

Moto-mike tuned a vortech to 275 whp on 92 octane. I guess he is "in bed" with vortech too...

You are kind of right, its turned into bias. And partly because I have spoken to tuners, shops, Innovate and owners. On top of that having Ecutek straight up say the Innovate kit basically should not have been released non intercooled.

This thread was about what kit to get. And what I am trying to say is Moto Mike posts his highest dyno plots, when asked obvious questions like how repeatable are those results or providing more technical detail it does not happen. Its misleading, same crap from innovate. They straight up told me "dont worry about heat, its not an issue." What it comes down to is these guys are doing one thing, banking on the low buy in price. They dont want to answer real questions.

Thats why I refuse to test it. Was even offered the kit by 3 people now for half off.

This kit has some of the worst transparency and facts. On top that the guys making the most power all are running E85 and meth to keep the car stable for anything more than street driving.

E85 is great but it kills MPG and there are zero long term studies on how it effects the fuel system on this car it was not tested to run on.

It will be a different story when they release the kit as it was intended by Sprintex/Bullet.

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Not knocking it but Moto-East is in bed with Innovate.
Secondly Moto-East posts about as much detail about his testing and tuning as Innovate does. They are both good at talking about dyno numbers that's about it.

I would love to see the same results replicated more than 2-3 pulls with the hood closed back to back after the kit heat soaks.

Ok, this is rather comical. You've obviously not met myself nor really seen what we do in its entirety.

There's a whole thread that is completely open about everything, and we have dyno numbers good and bad, and I've never been shy to post up a crooked vortech graph nor a wobbly innovate graph. You can see both get better with time as I have made clear that tunes get better with time. Several owners will attest to this. As for this hood shutting business, it is absolutely ridiculous to do this on a dyno. AEM markets this in the CAI development, but we're not developing a CAI, we're testing blowers. From an engineering perspective, unless you have an 80 MPH windtunnel to simulate the correct pressure gradients that are generated at highway or track speeds, then all you're simulating is being on a hot dyno. We want the dyno to simulate the road, not the other way round. And for the record the AEM one is only 40 MPH. Still crap.

I normally wouldn't waste time replying to this kind of stuff, but you've been well intentioned with your skepticism which I enjoy, so I will assume you just don't know how we operate. If we were in bed with vendors you'd see way more products in our store, and frankly that's the lat image I'd want to leave anyone with. It is almost as bad as RMAs.

Now back on topic, the innovate kit will be maxed as is at 285 - 300whp. A 70mm will go above the 15000 redline by 7500 rpm. This is on e85. Add an intercooler and you're only adding restriction when it comes to e85, so your ultimate HP will be slightly less. On pump, you'll maybe hit 275 intercooled with meth. My theory.

Vortech will hit 300+ with the right supporting mods, and do it every day on a racetrack....as long as the pipes don't get eaten away by belts and whatnot. The blowers will take it. The IC is certainly big enough. Add e85 and 330+

Now for people talking about the track, how many put in the requisite $10k in gearing, driveshafts, suspension, cooling, and brakes to handle 300 track hp? Safety equipment? Lots of folks get out a time or two, but after a season when faced with a 4k brake kit, 250/tire that lasts 3 track days, gearboxes every year, axles, safety equipment....at that point it will be very few. Look at Grand-Am, world challenge teams...they spend 20k to prep a car with 200hp. And still have failures. Frankly with 300whp and a driver who is motivated, it won't make it past 20 minutes no matter the kit, unless you do the aforementioned.

For street use the innovate vs vortech kit is not that hard. Up top take vortech, midrange take innovate. Don't mind waiting a second or two for power down low? Turbo. The end.

[Turbowned]

Thank you suh! I think that sets the record straight, but I still can't make up my mind...

Sounds like the Innovate kit can make the power I want even if it's a lofty goal, and it seems that the Vortech, although not as robust in the midrange as the twinscrew, should be a lot of fun especially in the top end. I'll probably start putting together supporting mods and decide on a charger in the next month or two.

[swift996]

Stop y'all whining...
[ame]http://youtu.be/o1aQICnesCI[/ame]