N/A power output potential as race setup?

[rice_classic]

I have future plans of racing the FRS. I'm looking at a variety of classes and with different rule sets, that means I'm also looking a massive variety of costs. I'm curious about N/A potential in a racing only application but yet does consider cost vs reliability of build. I would like to build something that I can afford to build but also that I can leave at the track in a ball of fire without shedding too many tears. Cuz racecar.

So...

What type of power to the rear wheels is feasible assuming:

1: Mild engine works such as port and polish, blueprint and balance, maybe cams.
2: Lightened flywheel/pulley/driveshaft
3: Race tuning including some increase in redline
4: Race only Intake, header and exhaust (under 98dB) with no cats.
5: Pump gas. No E85 up here and I'd prefer not spend 10-12/gallon on fuel (since racing uses lots-o-fuel).

I know there's some tuners that have played with some race only headers and exhausts but I have seen anyone with ported/polished heads and I don't know what benefits that makes on Boxers.

I think those 5 things on the list would put the build within budget and are conservative enough a build that it wouldn't exclude from too many classes not to mention be reliable and if the car can make 200-215 at the rear wheels that would put me in range of competing in a pretty fun/fast and competitive class. I'd be really interested if those numbers could be made without step #1.

Anyway, I'd like to invite the parts manufacturers and tuners in to discuss what they think might be possible.

Thank you

[Mike86]

A couple of people on here have made it over 200 whp without touching any internals!

[Dimman]

So far we've got no good info on cams, anyone flow-testing heads have kept that to themselves so port work is also unknown, a proper race header should be matched to cams too.

I think everyone is waiting for someone else to be the NA pioneer.


Also, 200whp where?

[FR-S Matt]

I'm going to try to push 200 whp with a local tune, a sweet header and a Nameless headerback with my Perrin CAI. I might get close, but we'll see.

[ATL BRZ]

You're gonna need e85 to break 200whp n/a. I'd love to be wrong...

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

You're gonna need e85 to break 200whp n/a. I'd love to be wrong...

I'm with you on this one.

Also, I'm not aware of anyone breaking 200whp yet even on e85. I suspect if someone had, they would have been posting dyno sheets on every FRS Forum on the internet.

Any confirmed reports/dynos?

Scott

[ATL BRZ]

I believe @2forme has a 200whp n/a dyno chart running an e85 tune and other mods...

EDIT: Here's the chart : http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=61

[rice_classic]

I'd love for you to be wrong too.

Also, count me in on seeing who's made over 200whp without touching internals or using E85.

I'm starting to think I'm better off building an S2000.

[2forme]

It was E85, AFE intake, SRT exhaust.

If you bought this car expecting to make gobbles of power on a 2.0 liter NA, then you bought the wrong car. I'd take an 86 over an S2K anyday because I don't spend all my driving time above 6000 RPM. lol but that's me.

[GTB/ZR-1]

Messing with the internals on this engine for an N/A application?

Not sure if the juice will be worth the squeeze...

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by 2forme

It was E85, AFE intake, SRT exhaust.

If you bought this car expecting to make gobbles of power on a 2.0 liter NA, then you bought the wrong car. I'd take an 86 over an S2K anyday because I don't spend all my driving time above 6000 RPM. lol but that's me.

After the beating I handed two guys with S2000's at my last autocross event in December, I wouldn't want one either.

Scott

[SubieNate]

You might want @CSG Mike's opinion on the S2000 vs the 86 for racing use if your goal is to be competitive as opposed to just having fun. I believe he stated that with a few mods he's faster in the 86 despite the power differential.

Nathan

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

You might want @CSG Mike's opinion on the S2000 vs the 86 for racing use if your goal is to be competitive as opposed to just having fun. I believe he stated that with a few mods he's faster in the 86 despite the power differential.

Nathan

It's REALLY track subjective... but overall, the BRZ/FRS is faster.

*edit*

OP has far more experience prepping race cars.... I just set up suspension/aero and drive :p

[rice_classic]

Unfortunately Autocross is irrelevant to my application. No offense, just a different world entirely.

Originally Posted by 2forme

It was E85, AFE intake, SRT exhaust.

If you bought this car expecting to make gobbles of power on a 2.0 liter NA, then you bought the wrong car. I'd take an 86 over an S2K anyday because I don't spend all my driving time above 6000 RPM. lol but that's me.

It's not about making big power, at all. It's about road racing class competitiveness with specific rule sets. Secondarily it's also about finding a balance in on-going racing cost and logistics. If you do 20 races a year on 100octane vs pump gas that's a significant increase in operating costs or if you have to rebuild your engine every season... etc etc. Goal (or hopes) would be to have a 215rwhp race only setup on pump gas that lasts for 3 seasons. (I know, I'm spoiled I currently race a Honda.)

I'm looking at a couple classes and at 2500lbs of car, if I can't see at least 210whp then the juice definitely won't be worth the squeeze because the car won't be competitive. Also, if the only way to make the needed N/A power is to run 100octane or E85 the operating cost changes and once again... juice not worth the squeeze because I can compete with another platform without those types of fuels.

As for the juice/squeeze scenario, thinking about the Spec Miata guys that spend $10k on "spec" engines... The more populated the class or the bigger the event (like national runoffs) the more costs to play up front grow exponentially, thus the desire to hit targeted goal without E85 or race fuel.

So anyway, that's a little background into the motivation of the inquisition.