Power is relative, and (mostly) over emphasized

[boredom.is.me]

Originally Posted by IjustwantaGT86

I came from a Prius and I am not sure what everybody is talking about with lack of power. The fun thing with passing in the Prius is that you can look at the the other driver and be like "Yeah, you just got passed by a Prius."

Reminds me of a joke...
Getting passed by a Prius on the highway...You look over and see them flicking you off while yelling, "40 miles to the gallon $!+^#."

[lickitysplit]

Originally Posted by boredom.is.me

Reminds me of a joke...
Getting passed by a Prius on the highway...You look over and see them flicking you off while yelling, "40 miles to the gallon $!+^#."

Except if they are passing you on the freeway they are getting more like 10mpg lol

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by SigmaHyperion

Man, to hear most of you guys, cars never passed one another in history up until the past 15yrs or so when 200hp became commonplace. Prior to 1990 everyone must have just drove around in single file, unable to pass a car in front of them.

To add my own input, does this car need more hp? No, you can pass just fine in daily driving if you know how to downshift. This isn't a car that you can mope along down the road at 1500 rpm and then put your foot down and expect to pass someone. It's not that car, just not how it was designed. The FA20 makes 200 hp at 7000 rpm. Think about that. If that doesn't tell you about the nature of driving this car, nothing else will. This is a car that will make you use all of its rev-range and all of its gears to extract a relatively feeble 200 hp. For better or worse, this car will force you to get involved, downshift, and explore the tach. If you didn't want driver involvement, you bought the wrong car.

Do I want an extra 50 hp in this car? Sure, and an extra 100 hp would be even better. But if it would come at the expense of how this car feels to drive or its superb balance and handling, then I wouldn't make that trade-off. There are enough stock 400+hp Mustang GTs and Camaros out there, let this car have its own niche. Best driver's car under $50k.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

To add my own input, does this car need more hp? No, you can pass just fine in daily driving if you know how to downshift. This isn't a car that you can mope along down the road at 1500 rpm and then put your foot down and expect to pass someone. It's not that car, just not how it was designed. The FA20 makes 200 hp at 7000 rpm. Think about that. If that doesn't tell you about the nature of driving this car, nothing else will. This is a car that will make you use all of its rev-range and all of its gears to extract a relatively feeble 200 hp. For better or worse, this car will force you to get involved, downshift, and explore the tach. If you didn't want driver involvement, you bought the wrong car.

Do I want an extra 50 hp in this car? Sure, and an extra 100 hp would be even better. But if it would come at the expense of how this car feels to drive or its superb balance and handling, then I wouldn't make that trade-off. There are enough stock 400+hp Mustang GTs and Camaros out there, let this car have its own niche. Best driver's car under $50k.

Thats not the case. The power would come at great expense but does not change the balance of the car I promise you that.

And its true if I had to do it again I would have stayed NA because of all the time and money I spent getting here. But where I am at now is better than where the car was and every one from pro drivers, magazine editors who drove the car including normal people agree the car with more power setup properly is better than the stock frs brz.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Thats not the case. The power would come at great expense but does not change the balance of the car I promise you that.

And its true if I had to do it again I would have stayed NA because of all the time and money I spent getting here. But where I am at now is better than where the car was and every one from pro drivers, magazine editors who drove the car including normal people agree the car with more power setup properly is better than the stock frs brz.

Thanks for sharing your experience and just to be clear, I don't doubt you at all. I was just saying if I had to sacrifice the things that make the FR-S such a great car to drive in order to get more power, I wouldn't make that trade-off. I'll be following your experience (esp. at the track) and others who've gone FI to see what the downsides are, as I'm thinking about a FI kit myself (with any necessary upgrades for light track use).

Speaking of which, where's that last part of your SC review series?

[Jose_Timberlake]

Originally Posted by red_comet

Guess what car Randy Pobst is talking about below...

"It handles so well that it feels underpowered. I find myself wanting more horsepower. I want to bolt a turbo on this thing or something. No, I do not want a turbo, because I love the direct throttle response of a naturally aspirated engine."

Here's a hint- it's the Porsche Cayman S.

Of course, Pobst has said nearly the same thing about the FR-S and the Mazda Rx-8 in videos I've seen on the yourtuba.

My question is this: If a(n) (expensive) car with a million horsepower can feel "underpowered" by the magnificence of it's own chassis, then what amount of power is enough? So much power that it overwhelms the car? Do you really want that? AMG did that with the SL black series they threw together, and it was obscene.

I feel that the toyobaru twins aren't underpowered. Driving them feels good because the cars do what you want them to do when you tell them to do it with no slush, which plenty of HI-POAR cars that cost more money can't even claim.

I say- put proper tires on these cars to unlock their potential, and leave the engine the hell alone. Unless you are racing... for money.

Couldn't have said this better myself

[Jose_Timberlake]

Originally Posted by Tujin

Or if you want to be able to pass on a two-lane road.

Granny shiftin' not double clutchin' like you should! Sorry I just couldn't resist...little bit of The F&F nostalgia.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

To add my own input, does this car need more hp? No, you can pass just fine in daily driving if you know how to downshift. This isn't a car that you can mope along down the road at 1500 rpm and then put your foot down and expect to pass someone. It's not that car, just not how it was designed. The FA20 makes 200 hp at 7000 rpm. Think about that. If that doesn't tell you about the nature of driving this car, nothing else will. This is a car that will make you use all of its rev-range and all of its gears to extract a relatively feeble 200 hp. For better or worse, this car will force you to get involved, downshift, and explore the tach. If you didn't want driver involvement, you bought the wrong car.

Do I want an extra 50 hp in this car? Sure, and an extra 100 hp would be even better. But if it would come at the expense of how this car feels to drive or its superb balance and handling, then I wouldn't make that trade-off. There are enough stock 400+hp Mustang GTs and Camaros out there, let this car have its own niche. Best driver's car under $50k.

I'd argue that the best driver's car under $50k is the Mustang BOSS 302 (though I realize its been discontinued). Others would say the 135i Msport is the best.

Btw, everyone referring to wanting more power to pass isn't talking about passing on the interstate. We're obviously referring to 2 lane, oncoming traffic, roads. And if you want to do that safely you're gonna drop down to 3rd gear and floor it. Well, some of us don't like having to use 100% of the car's power to make a safe pass.

It's somewhat amusing that the entire foundation of this thread is the Cayman S. A car that has such a brilliant chassis, and yet is intentionally neutered by Porsche so that it doesn't step on the toes of it's bigger brother, the 911. Sound familiar? Substitute Cayman for BRZ and STI for 911.

[thill]

I must have a special car or something. Most two lane roads near me are 50mph speed limit max. If I am passing someone that means they are most likely going under 50mph. I have no problem downshifting and passing safely. This car is probably still quicker than 90% of the cars on the road, and I have never felt unsafe driving the car due to lack of power.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Thanks for sharing your experience and just to be clear, I don't doubt you at all. I was just saying if I had to sacrifice the things that make the FR-S such a great car to drive in order to get more power, I wouldn't make that trade-off. I'll be following your experience (esp. at the track) and others who've gone FI to see what the downsides are, as I'm thinking about a FI kit myself (with any necessary upgrades for light track use).

Speaking of which, where's that last part of your SC review series?

Next week it will be out probably Monday or Tuesday. It's the best one so far very happy with it. What it really proves is the car is great, even with more power. Just wish we had a factory performance version so we don't have to modify all of these things to get there. Of course its great for the aftermarket, but I am not a huge advocate of modifying cars at all and now I have one of the most modified versions around. I can't really explain that one.

[Jose_Timberlake]

One of the best reviews on the Toyobaru I've come across was by Chris Harris from Drive. In it he compares the GT-86 aka FR-S to the 370Z and even though he recognizes that statistically, the Nissan Z is supposed to shred our little 2.0, 200hp boxer...he stresses how numbers/stats does not equate to better performance overall. And I quote "...a smaller plate of more expertly prepared flavors."

[Steve201brz]

it would be nice to get that little bit extra off the lot, but for what $ your saving on this car, you can invest in some aftermarket and still have a really reasonably priced vehicle.
I understand that not everyone beleives they "should have to put more $ into a 25k car" but cars aren't cheap these days anyway. with some aftermarket you gain that little bit of power. Someone here already said it, you don't need much more power, if any. at the end of the day companies just want more revenue
Hypothetically, if they added more power but increased the price do you think they would have the same amount of sales? IMO, i doubt it. the $25k sticker price is a real selling point for them. the more you put into it the more it costs

[Jose_Timberlake]

Originally Posted by Fancy

lol everyone saying that passing is no big deal. yeah passing is no big deal when you downshift and step on it to go around the 80 year old in his Oldsmobile. But when that soccer mom in her mini van doesn't really want to be behind you, she isn't going to let you pass, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Not sure how aggressive of drivers there are out in WI, but in Cali we come across some pretty aggressive drivers, especially during rush hour...and I've never had any issues passing up any soccer mom/dad in their swagger wagons.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'd argue that the best driver's car under $50k is the Mustang BOSS 302 (though I realize its been discontinued). Others would say the 135i Msport is the best.

I haven't driven the Boss 302, so I can't speak from experience, but having driven the Mustang GT 5.0, I can't imagine any car based on that chassis being the best driver's car under $50k. It's just such a heavy, cumbersome load to drive compared with a Miata or BRZ. But from a performance aspect, what a drool-worthy car

As for the 135i, does the Msport package fix the brutal understeer on that car? If so, I could see an argument there.

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Next week it will be out probably Monday or Tuesday. It's the best one so far very happy with it. What it really proves is the car is great, even with more power. Just wish we had a factory performance version so we don't have to modify all of these things to get there. Of course its great for the aftermarket, but I am not a huge advocate of modifying cars at all and now I have one of the most modified versions around. I can't really explain that one.

Definitely. I'm hoping 2015 brings a factory FI option for this car as I'm not particularly looking forward to going down the aftermarket FI route myself.