Power is relative, and (mostly) over emphasized
 

Guess what car Randy Pobst is talking about below...

"It handles so well that it feels underpowered. I find myself wanting more horsepower. I want to bolt a turbo on this thing or something. No, I do not want a turbo, because I love the direct throttle response of a naturally aspirated engine."

Here's a hint- it's the Porsche Cayman S.

Of course, Pobst has said nearly the same thing about the FR-S and the Mazda Rx-8 in videos I've seen on the yourtuba.

My question is this: If a(n) (expensive) car with a million horsepower can feel "underpowered" by the magnificence of it's own chassis, then what amount of power is enough? So much power that it overwhelms the car? Do you really want that? AMG did that with the SL black series they threw together, and it was obscene.

I feel that the toyobaru twins aren't underpowered. Driving them feels good because the cars do what you want them to do when you tell them to do it with no slush, which plenty of HI-POAR cars that cost more money can't even claim.

I say- put proper tires on these cars to unlock their potential, and leave the engine the hell alone. Unless you are racing... for money.

Or if you want to be able to pass on a two-lane road.

It is a good question. I bought the car knowing it was down on power and torque vs cars I previously owned. I am really enjoying the car, but I do still think the car could have used another 40-50hp and 30ft lbs of torque. For me.

I know that if Subaru or Toyota offered a stock STi or TRD model that had that additional power I would have bought it. And I think if such a model becomes available in the future I would consider selling my car for it. For 90%+ of the time I drive the car, it has more than enough power. It is that 5-10% of the time that I wish I had more that I crave.

And you know what? You are probably right. If this car came with 250hp and 200ft lbs of torque, there would be lots of people wanting 300hp and 250+lbs ft of torque.

I have nothing but two lane roads by me. I downshift.

EDIT...

To be fair, I live in a place where most drivers aren't a$$holes who accelerate when you try to pass them.

I do it daily, without issue. downshift, hit the gas and go.

One can never have enough power.....

Most people will just end up disappointed.

Yeah I've made passes easily on 2 lane roads. Don't know what you're talking about.

...with? I don't follow you.

Pretty much any type of car will have owners that want more. There is no way to satisfy the masses, even the enthusiast segment.

This is true for a US mentality, but it's also why there's a turbocharged option in other markets in the past with similar small cars, mostly because of the lifestyle and habits of other countries. It's also why car manufacturer research always tends to skew towards "US drivers prefer more torque/displacement" as a market indicator, especially in the past.

To be honest, US drivers are lucky we got the exact same ZC6/ZN6 as what is offered overseas. None of this "US gets 200HP Japan gets 250HP" crap that we used to see on S13/14, R32-34 Skyline, IS300, etc.

-alex

Maybe two lane going uphill. Passing on two lane level road is no big deal.

I always found that as long as you have selected the right gear you are fine. I found the same on my RSX that I had several years back. Select the wrong gear and your engine bogs down as oncoming traffic is approaching - not fun. Select the right gear and you can be close to license losing speeds (being caught 50 kph (about 31 mph) higher than the posted limit here in Ontario, Canada is an automatic license suspension).

Power is probably more a matter of perspective based on your history of cars that you have driven. Most of the cars that I have owned have either had less or similar power to the FR-S.

i never felt the frs was under powered at all... maybe im not driving uphill on a mountain but on flat roads its a quick little beast

You also have to keep in mind that Pobst is used to driving cars with much more power. And he is not exactly driving them on the street. So it is also relative to the context of being on the track and being a very skilled driver who knows how to handle that power. If the twins were 300hp cars under 3K pounds there would be a lot more accidents, and a lot more tickets :)

Sometimes I actually like the fact that my BRZ is not overpowered. Why? Because I don't want a pile of speeding tickets... It is already hard enough to stay near the speed limit.

That's two good points. Choose the right gear, and perspective. I've owned a few higher (one much more so) powered cars than the FRS, but none of them felt as good as my scion.

INCLUDING for comparison my modded and reflashed '02 WRX, which was about 250-260hp and not really that much heavier (±200 lbs) than the FRS. It was faster, quicker (that isn't a redundancy- there is a difference), and could hold a much higher speed through turns than my poor little toyobaru. I still have more fun in my car now.