Toyota rep at Frankfurt IAA said FT-86 weight will be 1,160kg (2,555 pounds)

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by suprachica79

Exactly. The cars I've been looking at have 0-60 times between 4.8-6.1sec, with an average right around 5.3sec. 1/4 mile times between 13.3-14.5 with the average being 13.8sec. I want something around those ranges and I expect something on the higher side of those ranges out of this car. If this car has 0-60 in the 7s and 1/4 in the 15s, I'm not going to be impressed.

This is the same thing I'm saying. You took the words outta my mouth for me. When will we disagree? LOL!!!

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by suprachica79

Using a quick calculator with-

2700lb
200hp

0-60 - 5.88
1/4 mile - 14.6

That's good enough for me

[KAuss]

Originally Posted by pastuch

Amen, original Miata (NA) has 115hp, 0 to 60 in 9.1 seconds and it's still more fun to drive than anything else I've tried. (Other than an FD RX7). 2100 pounds!

As much as I love Miatas, I am a weird one... Not the biggest NA / NB fan because I can't ever drive one comfortably... I've test drove a bunch of them trying to pick one out for my friend 2nd hand, but looking over the windscreen is not my imagination of fun...

Although the car handles like a bat out of hell, 115 hp is as much fun to drive everyday as my sister's xA... At LEAST that thing is not an automatic... That's all I can say...

GoKarts are fun to drive, but that's because you usually drive them in an area where they're designed to bring you maximum fun... If you drove a GoKart to work everyday, it would seem boring ONCE you hit the on ramp to any freeway / highway / interstate...

2550 is a far cry from 2100, and I ain't getting any lighter since going over the big Three O hump... This car has got to bring a bit more to the table than 150 - 160hp...

I love the NC, but the whole Miata forum sees that as the bloated big brother that is bring shame to the family... If this thing is heavier with less power, that would not be a good day IMO... Well I guess the upside is that I don't have to worry about my drop top leaking 10 years later...

[suprachica79]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

This is the same thing I'm saying. You took the words outta my mouth for me. When will we disagree? LOL!!!

Haha, I'm beginning to wonder the same thing, we agree on everything, it's getting to be creepy but comforting all at the same time lol. I just hope this car passes the butt dyno in stock form but I think being RWD will help that immensly.

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by chulooz

I want more than 'fun to drive' out of this car. while that is the most important aspect, if this thing can't get out of its own way it's going to fail as a sports car.

Those decade old examples won't hold up in 2012, the industry and its expectations have changed drastically.

Expectations have changed for the worst. People think cars should ALWAYS have power steering, airbags and fucking automatic transmissions. The more throw-back this car is the better (with the exception of the stereo).

I don't care if the 0 to 60 time is 7 seconds, as long as it feels fast.

Note: A 370z FEELS SLOW to me compared to a Miata that is half the speed.

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by suprachica79

Exactly. The cars I've been looking at have 0-60 times between 4.8-6.1sec, with an average right around 5.3sec. 1/4 mile times between 13.3-14.5 with the average being 13.8sec. I want something around those ranges and I expect something on the higher side of those ranges out of this car. If this car has 0-60 in the 7s and 1/4 in the 15s, I'm not going to be impressed.

Have you actually driven any of those cars? I've driven the new Mustang V6, 370z, G37 and WRX. The only one that feels AT ALL like a sports car is the WRX. Sure, they accelerate quickly but there is no sense of fun. They are all heavy, bloated boats. Don't get me started on the Camaro, Charger and Challenger... if you're shopping for one those do yourself a favor and buy a pickup, it'll weigh less.

I want to go around corners without hitting the brakes at ALL. I want to make the engine scream while only breaking the speed limit by 15mph. I want to drive it like I stole it and piss off all my neighbors.

Note: To the guy who just turned the big 3-0, so did I! Start taking Muay Thai or any kind of kick boxing, you'll loose 20 pounds in 3 months and feel great. I drove the Miata with the top down to Muay Thai at lunch today and all I could think is... "I think people would be happier if we all had one of these cars!". I never think that way about my G35, usually I just want to light it on fire.

EDIT #2: The manual transmissions in Nissans and Infinitys are total fucking shit. Horrible, horrible sticks. HORRIBLE.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Great handling isn't the definition of fun to drive IMHO. It's a combination of all aspects of a sporting vehicle like acceleration,steering,handling, and braking. But acceleration seems to be opinionated amongst enthusiast. It seems like some people think sporty is 0-60 9.2 seconds. Knock off more than 3. something seconds off of that and that's what I call sporty acceleration.

I don't think that is the mentality here unless you're new to the forum. Everyone here knows that this car primary focus is lightweight, balance and low price. Don't forget aesthetics, which helps determine if a car is sporty or not.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by suprachica79

Using a quick calculator with-

2700lb
200hp

0-60 - 5.88
1/4 mile - 14.6

That's good enough for me

Wait where did this come from? Did you assume max power at all times (a particularly bad assumption in both cases, one due to air resistance at higher speed, one due to having only 2 gears to use at low).
Alright well that said it's not too far off, RSX-S does a 6.2 with 200hp and about 2700 pounds. If the weight rumor is true this car could possibly do it in under 6.
Never personally experienced driving/sitting in a particularly fast car, but this seems to be in line with the 2002 WRX, which is the only "performance" car I've ever sat in, which I thought was pretty fast lol.

[chulooz]

Aesthetics are aesthetics, by definition it contributes nothing to the performance (sport or not) of the car.

[KAuss]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Wait where did this come from? Did you assume max power at all times (a particularly bad assumption in both cases, one due to air resistance at higher speed, one due to having only 2 gears to use at low).
Alright well that said it's not too far off, RSX-S does a 6.2 with 200hp and about 2700 pounds. If the weight rumor is true this car could possibly do it in under 6.
Never personally experienced driving/sitting in a particularly fast car, but this seems to be in line with the 2002 WRX, which is the only "performance" car I've ever sat in, which I thought was pretty fast lol.

It is also FWD which loses a lot of power when the weight is shifted to the rear, however I don't think it is gonna be a HUGE amount of difference... Especially given the low torque of the engine...

Originally Posted by pastuch

Note: A 370z FEELS SLOW to me compared to a Miata that is half the speed.

Originally Posted by pastuch

I drove the Miata with the top down to Muay Thai at lunch today and all I could think is... "I think people would be happier if we all had one of these cars!". I never think that way about my G35, usually I just want to light it on fire.

Funny thing is, I drove the tC, 350Z, NC Miata, G35C in that order when my friend wanted to lease a car after failing to find a NB Miata to buy... Obviously was not thrilled at all by the tC but it was his first choice... We then moved on to this second choice and I cried a little inside how boring / heavy the 350Z felt... (We ironically went shopping in his 2nd hand 300ZX lol) I literally had high hopes for this vehicle only to be let down by the biggest bit of disappointment when my 90 Integra LS was more fun to drive than this thing!

Then we moved on to my only choice (the NB was my suggestion too LOL) the NC MX-5... He didn't even want to test drive it, so I said heck, since I'm spending all this time finding this car with you I might as well test drive something to have fun in... Low and behold that was when Mazda was big on "Zoom Zoom" and the salesperson just filled the NC up with gas, got out of their seat, and told me to hop on the freeway and mash the hell out of the pedal... Paraphrasing, but meant every word... Needless to say a few laws were broken on public roads, and after a 15 min test drive with purely zero intent to purchase, I went back to my friend's 300ZX waiting in front of the dealership with a grin from ear to ear... Literally the car was so much fun to drive while I was in the car selling this car to him again, I was shivering waiting for another 15 minutes with the thing...

My friend then saw my excitement and asked if he should drive it also second guessing his decision to sit it out this round... I just keep staring at him with one of those "buddy movie" moments chanting, "dude!"

He then got out after much hesitation, came back with a smile bigger than mine (I told him about the "Zoom Zoom" LOL)... We literally without exaggerating, must of spent the next 30 minutes saying "dude!" to each other... We were both floating on cloud 9 as we headed to our last destination... G35C...

My friend wanted to find something that if it wasn't for maximum fun, was going to at least get the amenities of a luxury sports coupe... Having the lead foot we gained from driving the Miata, we took the G35C a bit harder than we have the 350Z... Amazingly, the G35C was more enjoyable... Not sure if the refinement hid some of the weight flaws, or was it the easier to navigate blind spots from the better car design... But we enjoyed it more than the 350Z...

Still, the whole time I sat there thinking, yeah this thing literally glues my butt to the seat, but I could never really put my foot all the way down on the gas pedal like I did the NC... Partially due to the familiarity of the vehicle and also not being "my car" I didn't want to crash it either... And that's where the whole thing stopped for me... I NEVER had this feeling driving the NC... The handing, brakes, even the gracious gas pedal glued to the floor made me feel safer than any vehicle I've ever driven...

So after that test drive, I spent my next 4 years still dreaming of the NC even went as far as to get a trade in quote for my truck to see if I can land me a pretty even trade with a new one...

To this date I love to have one, until 2009 when the FT86 was announced... Always wondered what a hardtop version of a Miata would feel like, I think I've finally found it... Now I hope the wait is worth the hype in every aspect...

P.S. My friend ended up leasing the NC for 2 years and I got to drive it the last week of the least... Got the grand touring with heated seats and man much fun was had, it was like a fling with a really hot chick, REALLY hot chick...

TL;DR

Test drove all cars, all were dogs, fell in love with NC, and a week affair with said car, hopes FT86 will be my fantasy hard top Miata...

The End...

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by KAuss

It is also FWD which loses a lot of power when the weight is shifted to the rear, however I don't think it is gonna be a HUGE amount of difference... Especially given the low torque of the engine...





Funny thing is, I drove the tC, 350Z, NC Miata, G35C in that order when my friend wanted to lease a car after failing to find a NB Miata to buy... Obviously was not thrilled at all by the tC but it was his first choice... We then moved on to this second choice and I cried a little inside how boring / heavy the 350Z felt... (We ironically went shopping in his 2nd hand 300ZX lol) I literally had high hopes for this vehicle only to be let down by the biggest bit of disappointment when my 90 Integra LS was more fun to drive than this thing!

Then we moved on to my only choice (the NB was my suggestion too LOL) the NC MX-5... He didn't even want to test drive it, so I said heck, since I'm spending all this time finding this car with you I might as well test drive something to have fun in... Low and behold that was when Mazda was big on "Zoom Zoom" and the salesperson just filled the NC up with gas, got out of their seat, and told me to hop on the freeway and mash the hell out of the pedal... Paraphrasing, but meant every word... Needless to say a few laws were broken on public roads, and after a 15 min test drive with purely zero intent to purchase, I went back to my friend's 300ZX waiting in front of the dealership with a grin from ear to ear... Literally the car was so much fun to drive while I was in the car selling this car to him again, I was shivering waiting for another 15 minutes with the thing...

My friend then saw my excitement and asked if he should drive it also second guessing his decision to sit it out this round... I just keep staring at him with one of those "buddy movie" moments chanting, "dude!"

He then got out after much hesitation, came back with a smile bigger than mine (I told him about the "Zoom Zoom" LOL)... We literally without exaggerating, must of spent the next 30 minutes saying "dude!" to each other... We were both floating on cloud 9 as we headed to our last destination... G35C...

My friend wanted to find something that if it wasn't for maximum fun, was going to at least get the amenities of a luxury sports coupe... Having the lead foot we gained from driving the Miata, we took the G35C a bit harder than we have the 350Z... Amazingly, the G35C was more enjoyable... Not sure if the refinement hid some of the weight flaws, or was it the easier to navigate blind spots from the better car design... But we enjoyed it more than the 350Z...

Still, the whole time I sat there thinking, yeah this thing literally glues my butt to the seat, but I could never really put my foot all the way down on the gas pedal like I did the NC... Partially due to the familiarity of the vehicle and also not being "my car" I didn't want to crash it either... And that's where the whole thing stopped for me... I NEVER had this feeling driving the NC... The handing, brakes, even the gracious gas pedal glued to the floor made me feel safer than any vehicle I've ever driven...

So after that test drive, I spent my next 4 years still dreaming of the NC even went as far as to get a trade in quote for my truck to see if I can land me a pretty even trade with a new one...

To this date I love to have one, until 2009 when the FT86 was announced... Always wondered what a hardtop version of a Miata would feel like, I think I've finally found it... Now I hope the wait is worth the hype in every aspect...

P.S. My friend ended up leasing the NC for 2 years and I got to drive it the last week of the least... Got the grand touring with heated seats and man much fun was had, it was like a fling with a really hot chick, REALLY hot chick...

TL;DR

Test drove all cars, all were dogs, fell in love with NC, and a week affair with said car, hopes FT86 will be my fantasy hard top Miata...

The End...

LOL, great story man! Thanks for sharing. Love those dude moments! I prefer the G35C over the 350z too (That's why I bought one). I've never driven the NB or NC and I can't say as I care to. The NA is PERFECTION to me. My parents paid $19000 Canadian for it in 1990 and I could sell it for $5000 right now, no problem. Mind-blowing value! I was 9 years old when they showed me a photo of it in a Road & Track. They told me they were buying it and that it would be delivered at 4pm on the 22nd. I was so excited I didn't hear the end of the sentence (The date). I ran out to the front yard and waited on the lawn for an hour before I went back inside to ask my parents what happened. Longest hour of my life. They laughed, I felt dumb, that was day 1 of Miata fan-boyism.

Learning how to drive stick in that car is the way EVERYONE on earth should learn to drive. The 5 speed in that car is the best manual tranny I've ever tried. The clutch and gearbox work together perfectly and the notchy feel of the stick is rifle smooth. The Mazda RX8 has a different but excellent stick, it's definitely tuned for the Rotary and they play together like magic. It's not as notchy as I like but terrific none-the-less.

I wanted the genesis coupe 2.0T to be the mans Miata but it's just too fucking big. Beautiful car though, if the G37 had half the soul of the Genesis Coupe they'd actually be selling them! (G35 sales embarrass the G37)

The new Mustang GT is supposed to have a stellar 6 speed. I haven't tried it yet but I've read good things.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by pastuch

Expectations have changed for the worst. People think cars should ALWAYS have power steering, airbags and fucking automatic transmissions. The more throw-back this car is the better (with the exception of the stereo).

I don't care if the 0 to 60 time is 7 seconds, as long as it feels fast.

Note: A 370z FEELS SLOW to me compared to a Miata that is half the speed.

Go to the doctor immediately. Something must be seriously wrong with you!!!

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by pastuch

Have you actually driven any of those cars? I've driven the new Mustang V6, 370z, G37 and WRX. The only one that feels AT ALL like a sports car is the WRX. Sure, they accelerate quickly but there is no sense of fun. They are all heavy, bloated boats. Don't get me started on the Camaro, Charger and Challenger... if you're shopping for one those do yourself a favor and buy a pickup, it'll weigh less.

I want to go around corners without hitting the brakes at ALL. I want to make the engine scream while only breaking the speed limit by 15mph. I want to drive it like I stole it and piss off all my neighbors.

Note: To the guy who just turned the big 3-0, so did I! Start taking Muay Thai or any kind of kick boxing, you'll loose 20 pounds in 3 months and feel great. I drove the Miata with the top down to Muay Thai at lunch today and all I could think is... "I think people would be happier if we all had one of these cars!". I never think that way about my G35, usually I just want to light it on fire.

EDIT #2: The manual transmissions in Nissans and Infinitys are total fucking shit. Horrible, horrible sticks. HORRIBLE.

I have driven a 350Z and it feels like a damn good sports car so I know the 370Z isn't just a fake. A WRX feels like a sports car? I've read the complete opposite. Mushy soft suspension with more body roll than acceptable for a sports sedan. I heard the STi is the real deal.

[suprachica79]

I haven't test driven anything because I know I'm not in a position to buy any of them, with getting my masters degree and the inability to find a full-time job with my specialized degree in pharmaceutical marketing and management. I was looking into the 1-series, 3-series, g35 and g37, and the IS. I work per diem, getting close to 40hrs most weeks so I can consider a car payment and the ensuing insurance because I have a good clip saved up but I probably won't buy until I have the full-time job secured so I have time.

I haven't really driven in many different cars to be quite honest, and certainly not many sports cars, one time a 350z but that was a while ago, and not much else. Like I said, I think the RWD will make a big difference in feel for me because all of the rwd cars I've ever driven in have really felt different and alot more fun so that is something I'm looking forward to. I hope by the time this car does arrive, I'll have secured a full-time job to be able to afford it along with my student loans which will kick in when I finish my masters ($800 a month )

@Serial - I got those numbers from a couple websites with 0-60 and 1/4 calculators, just a rough estimate at best as we all know gearing can change things alot.

Edit - One of the cars I've always loved regardless of its unreliability is the 95-98 Eagle Talon TSI. It was 2800lbs and 210hp with the turbo model and I always thought it was quick enough for me so the FR-S should be quicker.