News for Australians!!! - Pricing

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

I would compare rallyart/wrx to a golf r32 rather than gti. Gti lost it's heritage and what it used to be. R32 is more in relation to the original gti these days

We up to golf R now, HEAPS better than R32!

And yes, only ~$10k more than the GTI. I drove both today actually, along with the Touareg 180 I want to replace my Prado VX D4D with.

[Slide]

the R is a little more then R if you want decent options.

Drive away its about 60K

Price point it compares to all the cars Type R listed above. Can't believe its going to compete with the WRX and alike at price point.l

[PuGZoR]

Cbf explaining Australian automotive economy... If you want my view do a search.

I think this dealer was high balling. Firstly, they don't have a solid price yet, so they're of course going to quote some outragous figure so that the factory doesnt undercut them on RRP. They do have to honour any quote they give, remember?

Next item is that I was told by a show girl at the motor show this year that the base model was going to start at 35k. considering this girl wouldnt have known the car from a bar of soap, I'd trust her to pass on what the manufacturer wanted to, moreso than a dealer.

Finally, who the crap would buy this car if if was really closely priced as a WRX? I'm an enthusiast and I even struggle to justify that. The MX5 is a soft top remember and they're inherently more expensive to design and manufacture, and they're happy with their little niche they've found.

[Type[R]+]

^^^ yep, my point exactly!!!

[70NYD]

again, we need a like button on this forum

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

again, we need a like button on this forum

There is. LOL

Sometimes that facebook thing shows on the bottom right of the person's comment. Lol

[farugah]

Originally Posted by PuGZoR

Finally, who the crap would buy this car if if was really closely priced as a WRX? I'm an enthusiast and I even struggle to justify that.

My thoughts exactly, I completely agree with Type R as well if they price this at 43k it WILL fail.

[AIRMAX]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

LOL there are more unemployed people in the USA than there are people in TOTAL in australia..
american SALARY average gets pushed up significantly by certain overpaid proffesions. show me a bell chart with their earnings, or at least tell me the standard deviation for the salaries in the states for the white collar.. its easy to put a spin on anything with simple averages, in reality averages mean shit compared to the whole spread
3 OEM manufacturers.. and how many cars are actually designed here? and how many cars are actually assambled here? or made here? if there were plants here from ~10 manufacturers, that would be impressive.. this isnt europe mate, where it doesnt matter where what factory is, its all still on the same continent, and you can still physically drive to the town where the factory is from anywhere else in europe.. this is a island.. if it isnt made here, it has to be shipped here.. and there is your problem.

Your stating information out of context.
USA have 250+ Million people, Australia has 21~23 Million people.

10:1 ratio.



Australia's Unemployment rate of Under 5% is Exaggerated, because part time employment is accounted for. Example: if Joe Smith worked 2 hours last week for his $55~60 dollar paycheck, he is considered employed.

Go to macrobusiness.com.au, and update yourself with current economy down in Australia.


I worked in the states for 2 years, which meant I lived there too. My coleagues of the same experience as I, earned approximately the same as I did.
The difference?
Cost of living there is dramatically cheaper, except for medical expenses and general services.

I drove a Subaru Impreza here in Oz, and over there (states), my coleagues drove Porsche Boxters, Mustangs, IS250s, WRXs etc of the same salary I was earning. Why?.... because they are cheap there.
If you earned 80K AUD living in Oz, you are doing "OK".
In the States, you earn 80K, you are more than comfortable and WELL OFF.

Of course you should know why they are cheap over there.





Regarding OEMs in Australia.
WTH are you mentioning Germany?
Germany is a leading nation for Automotive, with over 100 years of designing, developing autmotives.
Australia has about 20-25 years of development, Ford and Holden have more years under their belt, but in terms of design from ground up. Maybe 25 years or so...

And Germany has 2-3 times more population, have about 10 surrounding countries which they can "truck" deliver cars, and these countries account for about more than 200 million people combined... hence 10 times more market than Australia.

I dont understand what is your point?

Of course Australia isnt in the same league as Germany.


No one said they are.
What I can tell you is, Australia has automotive expertise that is appreciated and respected by OEMs from other Nations, including Germany, Japan and USA.

You'd be shocked on how Australia Automotive R&D/Engineering actually makes it to a global scale.

And when the time comes that Australian Manufacturing collapse, the Automotive Knowledge amongst the local experts and companies will more likely be transferred to nearest manufacturing giant... China, Thailand. And most of the R&D staff will relocate to their mother OEMs in USA, Japan, Germany etc.


How many cars are designed in Oz.
From top of my head.
- Camry/Aurion (are co-designed globally)
- Ford Territory
- Ford Falcon and its variants
- Holden Commodore
- Holden Cruze (are co-designed globally)
- Magna (Finish now, but was co-designed globally)
- Chevrolet Camaro (had design/evaluation input from Holden local)
- Corolla (Previous models, had local engineers worked on it)
- Holden/Ford/Toyota also have employees from their R&D/Engineering who Go and Live overseas and work for their "mother" OEMs on various projects.

And in the future, there's about 3-4 vehicles that have potential to be co-designed by Australians, due to their popularity here.

So for a Nation with 20 Million people, Australia isnt as shabby as you think they are. Knowledge here is on a Global scale.

[AIRMAX]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

it's a shortened impreza with lowered springs!

Come on man, you know enough about the car by now, $43k is instant fail!
I don't care how you slice it, WRX/GTI/ralliart > FT86. But hey, I'm just a realist.

I am a BIG WRX STi fan, in fact I would of bought one last year. But put off, until I see how the FT-86 turns out.

And then I saw the next gen 2013 WRX STi and WOW, rumours saying its going to be about length of a Yaris Hatch with width of the current WRX and powered by a 1.6 turbo charge boxer.... pushing over 300hp.... thats INSANE.



In regards to the "shortenned" Impreza platform.
Shortenning a platform, changes the dynamics of the chassis.
Lowering it to the ground, further adds to the dynamic changes. Then you change from 4WD to RWD, then its a whole new ball game.

Manufacturing wise its cheaper, because most parts can be carried over... but performance/handling feels like a new chassis altogether.

I like to compare it to a human athlete...
Would a 6'5, 200 pound, 5% body fat who has high fitness level perform the same way as that 5'5, 200 pound, 30% body fat guy who hasnt run for 2 years?

no....

But guess what, same skeleton structure, with varying lengths in limbs and height.



All cars have the same skeletal structure, well MOST of them anyways. Dynamics and handling are adjusted based on Drive train (RWD, AWD, FWD), length, track width, ride height (center of gravity) etc.



And Dont get me started on the GTI.... its the lazy, non-enthusiasts man's sports car.

Its won many awards because its daily driver friendliness.... which means its SOFT.

Its Front Wheel Drive, tiny cabin space, nice engine, 50K AUD drive away with decent options... and people buy them because they are euro snobs and its a trendy thing at the moment.

The Golf R, is the minimum car I would buy from VW.... its 4WD, nice engine... still tiny cabin, but the 4WD atleast makes it drivable in the snow and long drives.... and only 5-7K extra over the GTI.


So, HELL NO, 50K for a GTI.... WRX is a good purchase, but I would prefer the STi....

lets compare the GTI and "Rumoured" FT-86
- Hatch - Coupe
- 3/5 doors - 2 doors
- 2 liter, 155kW/280Nm Turbo - 2 liter, 150kW/225Nm NA
- 1360kg - 1150kg (rumoured)

GTI is also 6-7K AUD more expensive.
Performance wise, not too far off from each other.
Looks wise, hatch or coupe?, traditional sports cars are coupe...
FT-86 is lighter and lower center of gravity, easier to throw around corners and swerve around traffic at high speeds.

Servicing cost?, my friend paid $3000 AUD for his 30K kilometer sevice for his GTI and most of the changes required fluid replacement... I'm still shocked by this one.



I have this motto.... Coupes or Convertibles are better weekend drivers due to their uniqueness, sportiness. My MR2 still most fun car to drive down the mountains.

By next year, hopefully I can have the FT-86 next to either a WRX Sti or a Liberty/Legacy Wagon GT.... need space for the dogs... and oh, the family. :-)

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by AIRMAX

And Dont get me started on the GTI.... its the lazy, non-enthusiasts man's sports car.

Its won many awards because its daily driver friendliness.... which means its SOFT.

Putting serious hat on for a minute, do yourself a favor and take a new one for a test drive. Seriously. It works seemlessly, firm but smooth. It's a better drive than both the ralliart and wrx. But its not what I would call soft....

And the gti's are not $50k?, there's 3 here in Darwin for ~$42-43k drive away (all DSG), and there is a fully spec'd one with sunroof and leather here for $47k drive away. Cabin space is very good actually, I had plenty of room in front and back, and I'm 6'2". Seemed more room than my honda euro actually, but that wouldn't be hard. But how is a tiny coupe going to have more room than this, if this is one of your points? Practicality. Another reason why FT86 will fail against ralliart/wrx/gti at this $40k+ price. The Scirocco R will be ~$50k drive away too, which will no doubt be another nail in the coffin.

As I said before, the FT86 would want to be super special if it wants to compete with this $40k+ market... and you know it.

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by AIRMAX

Your stating information out of context.
USA have 250+ Million people, Australia has 21~23 Million people.

10:1 ratio.



Australia's Unemployment rate of Under 5% is Exaggerated, because part time employment is accounted for. Example: if Joe Smith worked 2 hours last week for his $55~60 dollar paycheck, he is considered employed.

Go to macrobusiness.com.au, and update yourself with current economy down in Australia.


I worked in the states for 2 years, which meant I lived there too. My coleagues of the same experience as I, earned approximately the same as I did.
The difference?
Cost of living there is dramatically cheaper, except for medical expenses and general services.

I drove a Subaru Impreza here in Oz, and over there (states), my coleagues drove Porsche Boxters, Mustangs, IS250s, WRXs etc of the same salary I was earning. Why?.... because they are cheap there.
If you earned 80K AUD living in Oz, you are doing "OK".
In the States, you earn 80K, you are more than comfortable and WELL OFF.

Of course you should know why they are cheap over there.





Regarding OEMs in Australia.
WTH are you mentioning Germany?
Germany is a leading nation for Automotive, with over 100 years of designing, developing autmotives.
Australia has about 20-25 years of development, Ford and Holden have more years under their belt, but in terms of design from ground up. Maybe 25 years or so...

And Germany has 2-3 times more population, have about 10 surrounding countries which they can "truck" deliver cars, and these countries account for about more than 200 million people combined... hence 10 times more market than Australia.

I dont understand what is your point?

Of course Australia isnt in the same league as Germany.


No one said they are.
What I can tell you is, Australia has automotive expertise that is appreciated and respected by OEMs from other Nations, including Germany, Japan and USA.

You'd be shocked on how Australia Automotive R&D/Engineering actually makes it to a global scale.

And when the time comes that Australian Manufacturing collapse, the Automotive Knowledge amongst the local experts and companies will more likely be transferred to nearest manufacturing giant... China, Thailand. And most of the R&D staff will relocate to their mother OEMs in USA, Japan, Germany etc.


How many cars are designed in Oz.
From top of my head.
- Camry/Aurion (are co-designed globally)
- Ford Territory
- Ford Falcon and its variants
- Holden Commodore
- Holden Cruze (are co-designed globally)
- Magna (Finish now, but was co-designed globally)
- Chevrolet Camaro (had design/evaluation input from Holden local)
- Corolla (Previous models, had local engineers worked on it)
- Holden/Ford/Toyota also have employees from their R&D/Engineering who Go and Live overseas and work for their "mother" OEMs on various projects.

And in the future, there's about 3-4 vehicles that have potential to be co-designed by Australians, due to their popularity here.

So for a Nation with 20 Million people, Australia isnt as shabby as you think they are. Knowledge here is on a Global scale.

wow what are you on about? who mentioned germany?
you know the difference between europe and germany right?

what i said is that there are more unemployed people in the states than people all together in australia..
and im not even gonna go in to the rest of it.. you are wasting my time

and really? 80K is well off? damn i should move to America then and retire haha

EDIT
just to clear it up, im not saying australia has no knowledge, or capabilities to POTENTIALLY manufacture cars. what i said is that we are a nanny state, with ridiculously high prices for everything and that we import (by ship) most vehicles.. and that therefore we will never have fairly priced cars..

[Slide]

Look at the attactment.

This is just a 3 door with the options i would want.

60K drive away!!!

The reason you can get one for 47k in NT is cause it would be either a 2009 or 2010 model.

[70NYD]

remove park assist if you have a rearview camera, remove gps if you have a AUX socket and a phone that has GPS on it.. why have so many redundant features? they wont boost your resale value.
this was mentioned in another thread (about AV) and i agree there, all i want is something that has aux in (prefferably with integration for iDevices so i can use the steering wheel) a USB port and no cd, no dvd, hell not even a screen (why have a screen if i plug/mount a ipad in or the samsung 7" tablet?) and off aya go

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by Giccin

There is. LOL

Sometimes that facebook thing shows on the bottom right of the person's comment. Lol

yeah but on every post haha, and not to link to facebook, just to stay within the forums