How bad are all season tires?

[Johnny Horsepower]

This evening I picked up my FR-S with new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires.

1. For a quick comparison with the Michelin Primacy HPs, I had a particular turn in mind. Coming home, to turn into my development, I often have to come to a complete stop and wait for a break in traffic. Then I accelerate just slightly hard while making a sharp left turn--more than 90 degrees with a tight radius. Every time, the Primacys would chirp and it felt like the VSC was about to come on. The Pilot Sports gave just a tiny chirp and felt more stable. Hardly a thorough comparison, but a good sign.

2. Originally they wanted $1100 all in to put new Pilot Sport A/S 3+s on. That's absurd, right? I found that buying the tires from Tire Rack and shipping them there would make it $588 for tires and $125 to mount, balance, and align ($713 total). I sure don't understand a $387 markup for the convenience of having them order the tires. And when I went to pick it up, instead of $125 they said it was $310, so I asked what made it go up so much.

Turns out the guy who said it was $125 was fired for repeatedly breaking company rules. Apparently I wasn't supposed to be allowed to ship tires there, and the price he quoted was wrong. They did honor the $125 price though, saying that while they didn't know what happened, they can't say one price and charge something different. They have good reviews and came personally recommended, and I really appreciate their integrity, but I'm not sure what to think of their prices. Then again, I guess I don't really know what their prices even are.

3. I'm not sure how these tires are supposed to affect fuel economy, and I don't have a good "before" metric (23.5 average mpg since sometime before I bought it; 1/3 of the miles are mine), but I took some measurements.

Trip 1: Spirited driving around town right after I got my car back, hit redline a few times, about 10 minutes. 20.9 mpg. Not surprising.

Trip 2: Gentle driving in D, sport mode off. About 15 minutes, but over a different route with more highway driving. Also, my wife was now in the car. 20.7 mpg. Are you kidding me?

Trip 3: Returning from trip 2, in M with moderately hard acceleration. 24.9 mpg.

I can see why trip 3 did better than trip 1. Please explain why trip 2 did so bad. Moral of the story: WOT to save gas!

[why?]

any mods? Was the a/c on full blast? Did you choose the shift points or leave it in auto mode? How much did you push down the accelerator?


You need more miles than you did to accurately judge gas mileage. At the short time you did it 1 flooring of the pedal will totally distort the gas mileage you get.

Originally Posted by Johnny Horsepower

This evening I picked up my FR-S with new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires.

1. For a quick comparison with the Michelin Primacy HPs, I had a particular turn in mind. Coming home, to turn into my development, I often have to come to a complete stop and wait for a break in traffic. Then I accelerate just slightly hard while making a sharp left turn--more than 90 degrees with a tight radius. Every time, the Primacys would chirp and it felt like the VSC was about to come on. The Pilot Sports gave just a tiny chirp and felt more stable. Hardly a thorough comparison, but a good sign.

2. Originally they wanted $1100 all in to put new Pilot Sport A/S 3+s on. That's absurd, right? I found that buying the tires from Tire Rack and shipping them there would make it $588 for tires and $125 to mount, balance, and align ($713 total). I sure don't understand a $387 markup for the convenience of having them order the tires. And when I went to pick it up, instead of $125 they said it was $310, so I asked what made it go up so much.

Turns out the guy who said it was $125 was fired for repeatedly breaking company rules. Apparently I wasn't supposed to be allowed to ship tires there, and the price he quoted was wrong. They did honor the $125 price though, saying that while they didn't know what happened, they can't say one price and charge something different. They have good reviews and came personally recommended, and I really appreciate their integrity, but I'm not sure what to think of their prices. Then again, I guess I don't really know what their prices even are.

3. I'm not sure how these tires are supposed to affect fuel economy, and I don't have a good "before" metric (23.5 average mpg since sometime before I bought it; 1/3 of the miles are mine), but I took some measurements.

Trip 1: Spirited driving around town right after I got my car back, hit redline a few times, about 10 minutes. 20.9 mpg. Not surprising.

Trip 2: Gentle driving in D, sport mode off. About 15 minutes, but over a different route with more highway driving. Also, my wife was now in the car. 20.7 mpg. Are you kidding me?

Trip 3: Returning from trip 2, in M with moderately hard acceleration. 24.9 mpg.

I can see why trip 3 did better than trip 1. Please explain why trip 2 did so bad. Moral of the story: WOT to save gas!

[Johnny Horsepower]

Originally Posted by why?

any mods? Was the a/c on full blast? Did you choose the shift points or leave it in auto mode? How much did you push down the accelerator?

No mods except tires. A/C was set moderately high the whole time. Trip 1: I thought I implied manual mode but apologies for not stating it; Trips 2 and 3 were in auto and manual mode respectively. Not sure I can objectively say how much I pushed down the accelerator. Let's say hard, then soft, then moderate.

Originally Posted by why?

You need more miles than you did to accurately judge gas mileage. At the short time you did it 1 flooring of the pedal will totally distort the gas mileage you get.

Agreed, it was too short a test. But I would still expect flooring it to give worse mileage than grandma driving!

[86MLR]

Hankook RS4 all year round, they do sledge a bit when it's around 0°Celsius until the tyre warms up a bit, but only if pushing a bit.

Fuel economy, LOL, but.....8.8l/100km average for the last 2k km. Mix of city and hwy.

I need to do more skids

[Trueweltall]

General tire AS-05's here, no issue with performance on the street.

[WolfWings]

Look for all-seasons with the three-triangle "mountain range" snowflake (not just a single triangle w/ a snowflake) on them, IMHO. Those are much more "winter tires that don't mind if it gets super hot out" so you'll give up dry/summer traction but wet/snow traction is excellent.

I've got 12k miles on my Vredestein Quatrac 5's at this point over the winter across Colorado and Wyoming, and another 1k miles since (two looong road trips over winter for family obligations) and they're exactly what they aim to be: Great in horrible weather, and passable in dry; thankfully our cars aren't wheelspinners by default so it's an excellent option.

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by Trueweltall

General tire AS-05's here, no issue with performance on the street.

The more miles I put on these G-Max AS 05's the more i like them. I'm getting some of the best mpg's I've ever gotten too which is nice especially since at 116k I'm still running original plugs and serpentine belt. Hopefully that goes up (if the motor doesn't blow up) after I get the recall work done next month and they change those parts out for new.

[ctvolfan]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

Uhh... unless he is one of the few who got Bridgestones from the factory, his OEM tires are SUMMER tires, and should not be used in winter weather.

What exact tires were from the factory on the FRS? I have Bridgestones on my 2015 FRS right now. I bought my FRS used. I assume they are the originals from the factory. What were the Michelin tires that were on these from the factory? I am in the market for new tires right now and need to decide. I liked the Bridgestones I have. Thought about Michelin this time. Thanks!

[maslin]

Any feedback on the Falken Pro G5 Sport A/S? Looks like a direct copy of the Michelin, at a significantly reduced price. $500/4 vs $700/4 in a 245/40R17.

Might give them a shot, still not completely sure on tire size and don't want to be so over committed that there's no going back.

[OwlDance]

Originally Posted by ctvolfan

What exact tires were from the factory on the FRS? I have Bridgestones on my 2015 FRS right now. I bought my FRS used. I assume they are the originals from the factory. What were the Michelin tires that were on these from the factory? I am in the market for new tires right now and need to decide. I liked the Bridgestones I have. Thought about Michelin this time. Thanks!

AFAIK Toyota/Scion had the (free) option for all seasons over the factory summers. Summers are Michelin Primacies. The all seasons are Turanza EL-400-02.

[xdavidx]

I've had MPSS on a number of cars here in socal. While it is usually pretty hot, it does sometimes get below freezing in the winter. I never had an issue with them and certainly no cracking. RE-11 and 71s on the other hand did grip noticeably worse when cold, no cracking or other damage to the tire though. Still gripped better than the stock turanzas in any scenario.



I lived most of my life in the northeast though.


In snow, summer are 100% and a/s are 95% useless. No real difference there, so if you're expecting snow I'd always switch to a snow tire.



I think the summer tire issues in the cold are a bit over dramatized, but might be a bigger concern if you are in a place with extended extreme cold or you are tracking your car in the winter. I've always found a/s tires to just remove the best qualities of summer and winter tires without adding anything good in return.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by ctvolfan

What exact tires were from the factory on the FRS? I have Bridgestones on my 2015 FRS right now. I bought my FRS used. I assume they are the originals from the factory. What were the Michelin tires that were on these from the factory? I am in the market for new tires right now and need to decide. I liked the Bridgestones I have. Thought about Michelin this time. Thanks!

OEM Bridgestone Turanza EL-400 are apparently pretty terrible. They're ranked at the absolute bottom of a very very low-performance category (Standard Touring A/S) with Tire Rack:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surve...ay.jsp?type=ST
Typical review:
These have been the worst tires I have ever had. I would not ever recommend anybody getting these awful tires. If you want problems and annoyances then I would definitely recommend these to you. If you are like me and want decent tires, then no. Please I beg of you not to buy these. Unfortunately these came on my car.

The OEM Michelin Primacy HP summer tires are better but of course shouldn't be used in snow/ice/cold winter months. These tires only get a 4.6/10 customer "would you recommend" rating.

There are much MUCH better tires available for this car. Look around in the Tire Rack for tires that match what you want and need out of tires.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by xdavidx

In snow, summer are 100% and a/s are 95% useless. No real difference there, so if you're expecting snow I'd always switch to a snow tire.

There is a very very VERY wide range of snow/ice performance from all-season tires. Some are as you suggest no better than summer tires. Some however are decent. I agree that for these cars, which have so little static load on the driven wheels, better to go with dedicated winter tires for snow. Again, though, some are better than others...

I think the summer tire issues in the cold are a bit over dramatized, but might be a bigger concern if you are in a place with extended extreme cold or you are tracking your car in the winter.

I agree with you here! I've tracked my old 240Z in late November at Lime Rock in the snow on Hoosiers (practically slicks)! No problem after brief warm-up on the go-kart track before running my time trial

I've always found a/s tires to just remove the best qualities of summer and winter tires without adding anything good in return.

Maybe you never had decent all-seasons, but they do exist! Wife's Mazda3 couldn't get up the driveway in the snow on the OEM all-seasons, but with Conti ExtremeContact DWS tires, no problemo.

[ctvolfan]

Originally Posted by ZDan

OEM Bridgestone Turanza EL-400 are apparently pretty terrible. They're ranked at the absolute bottom of a very very low-performance category (Standard Touring A/S) with Tire Rack:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surve...ay.jsp?type=ST
Typical review:
These have been the worst tires I have ever had. I would not ever recommend anybody getting these awful tires. If you want problems and annoyances then I would definitely recommend these to you. If you are like me and want decent tires, then no. Please I beg of you not to buy these. Unfortunately these came on my car.

The OEM Michelin Primacy HP summer tires are better but of course shouldn't be used in snow/ice/cold winter months. These tires only get a 4.6/10 customer "would you recommend" rating.

There are much MUCH better tires available for this car. Look around in the Tire Rack for tires that match what you want and need out of tires.

I actually thought that they were pretty good tires. I have gotten over 42K out of them and they could actually go further. But they did lack in wet conditions.

I have decided to get the Michelin Premier A/S tires. The car is a daily driver and it is my wife's car so those should be fine. The car is still going to handle great with these. Michelin gives these a 9 on a 10 scale for handling. They are 60k tires so that is nice. Thanks!