How important is an LSD on this car?

[serialk11r]

Yes I figured that much, but that kind of statement is a bit difficult to ignore...
When they drove the Exige around one of the tires was spinning through a corner, which is why Clarkson made the comment.

Not saying I don't trust you though, so you say it doesn't make a difference? Any other opinions?

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Option, as there will be better LSD's in the aftermarket and I don't want to pay for something I know I'm going to change.

I agree. If you want to drive it hard or on the track, you're going to want a much tighter LSD.

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I've read about the Auburn units that do that. They're clutch pack LSD that can lockup both wheels. Those are pretty cool and while they lock the wheels electronically they can be turned on/off with a switch. I've mentioned them before. Auburn > LSD.

The best solution to low traction situations is better suited tires. Am I right?

http://www.auburngear.com/aftermarke...8-c6f9d7f93179

Very interesting. I didn't believe it at first.

But the thing about these is the fact that they are a Limited slip until you turn it on, then it's a spool/full locker. Which if you're at the track is very bad.

Might be fun in the back of a 4Runner though lol.

[Random_Art]

I suppose if you want the "cheap bastards locked rear differential" you can always open up up the differential housing and weld the two drive axels together. Going around corners will be a real adventure then!

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yes I figured that much, but that kind of statement is a bit difficult to ignore...
When they drove the Exige around one of the tires was spinning through a corner, which is why Clarkson made the comment.

Not saying I don't trust you though, so you say it doesn't make a difference? Any other opinions?

It's a fine balance. A well setup suspension with sticky tires doesn't "need" an LSD compared to a poorly setup suspension with low-grip tires. Furthermore, a well balanced car can be driven poorly and create a need for an LSD for that driver.

Basically, an LSD will mask a crappy car and/or a crappy driver, but a good driver with a good car minimizes the need for an LSD. Of course this is primarily with rear-drive cars. Front drive cars almost always need an ATB to put power down, though it's at the expense of delicate steering feel.

In the end, I hope an LSD isn't critical for the FR-S to handle well.

[ryun84]

But an LSD wouldn't "hurt" a well-balanced car with a good driver, right? If not, then why not just include the LSD for the potential benefit (unless we're trying to minimize cost)?

[Ryephile]

Usually. A well specified LSD for the application will almost always lower lap times, however it may do at the expense of feedback and driver emotional purity. Too many manufacturers get hung up on comparative specifications and ignore the most important facet; driver satisfaction.

With any luck Toyota specifies a good LSD [if their latest press conference is an indication of production intent]. A quality clutch-pack would be best for rear-drive; ATB's in the rear axle tend to be less communicative and less pin-point precise in terms of car control in than a clutch-pack. The problem with my hope is worthy clutch-pack LSD's are expensive, and cheap ATB's like Torsen's are affordable with reasonable quantities of scale.

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by Random_Art

I suppose if you want the "cheap bastards locked rear differential" you can always open up up the differential housing and weld the two drive axels together. Going around corners will be a real adventure then!

The tried and true Lincoln Locker lol.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

http://www.auburngear.com/aftermarke...8-c6f9d7f93179

Very interesting. I didn't believe it at first.

But the thing about these is the fact that they are a Limited slip until you turn it on, then it's a spool/full locker. Which if you're at the track is very bad.

Might be fun in the back of a 4Runner though lol.

Or for dirt track or ice racing. The only reason I brought it up is for winter driving though. I've driven a nose heavy RWD truck on ice and the biggest problem I had was 1 wheel spinning. It's been mentioned that LSD doesn't really help on ice because it can burn up the unit.

Originally Posted by Random_Art

I suppose if you want the "cheap bastards locked rear differential" you can always open up up the differential housing and weld the two drive axels together. Going around corners will be a real adventure then!

True, but that's not something you want to do on a brand new differential is it? Or on a corner carving DD.

[Flip]

Originally Posted by blur

This car NEEDS to be track ready. After all the talk, they need to walk the walk. The 86 needs LSD, sport tuned suspension and a 6 speed in the base model. I know I'm a bit optimistic but thats how I see it. The options can provide better parts.

As much as I want it, get real, it's Scion. I want an LSD, but I want it to come standard. I wouldn't pay $3000 for it as a dealer option. But again, it's going to be a Scion. Their #1 is 16-21 hipster wannabes who probably don't know what an LSD is.

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Or for dirt track or ice racing. The only reason I brought it up is for winter driving though. I've driven a nose heavy RWD truck on ice and the biggest problem I had was 1 wheel spinning. It's been mentioned that LSD doesn't really help on ice because it can burn up the unit.

Well you don't want a locked up rear end on ice either unless you plan on turning very, very slowly.

You don't want a Locked up Rear on anything that will see turns over 10 MPH.

It works great when you are climbing over rocks at .5 MPH but when turning at speed you have to let the wheels spin at different speeds.

[enc0re]

I'm hoping we'll get a torque sensing rather than locking differential.

[Neutral_Eyes]

I think it would be nice to have an option for an open diff. just for folks that want to put in their own specific setup. However, I voted for "it's gotta have one" simply because I don't think Subaru can go from AWD on every model to an open diff. for this car and it would be too easy to use the lack of a standard LSD as an argument against what this car is supposed to be.

It might not be the best unit out there, but I don't think they're going to drop the ball on this.

[ToyotaObsession]

So I was talking to a buddy of mine about this thread because I found it all very fascinating. He made an excellent point.

An LSD is there to help with Cornering. As you go through the corner your inside tire is going to lift and not get as much traction. It doesn't matter how sticky your tires are if you can't keep them on the ground.

Now we all know that on an open diff the power is going to go to the wheel with least resistance. The LSD helps keep the power even so you are able to get through the corner faster with more control. Then when you exit you have the same power going to both wheels for great power exiting.

Of course it's only going to make a small difference when you're racing balls out. A few tenth's of a second maybe.

But still I thought it was interesting to note that this car is going to be all about the corners. So I think they will be including a LSD in the package standard.