How important is an LSD on this car?

[colHolm]

The way this concept is being positioned, the production car sounds like it will have a limited slip differential... Please rate how important this feature/spec is to you in the poll.

[Fly Guy]

Definitely got to have one. This will be a driver's car.

[philip808]

It was an option in North American markets before..why not do the same now? An open-diff definitely would be more entertaining.


pj

[Dragonitti]

Option, as there will be better LSD's in the aftermarket and I don't want to pay for something I know I'm going to change.

[Zaku]

Am much as I agree with Dragon that it should be an option, other manufacturers have it standard IE Honda Civic Si, to be competitive right out the factory I think it should have one standard and not a paid extra option....honest I'm mixed opinion on this

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Am much as I agree with Dragon that it should be an option, other manufacturers have it standard IE Honda Civic Si, to be competitive right out the factory I think it should have one standard and not a paid extra option....honest I'm mixed opinion on this

Yeah but regardless its going to be rolled into the cost of the vehicle. Be it option or standard, you know what I mean. The Gen Coupe comes with and without the LSD, so it would be nice to have the same for the FR-S.

[colHolm]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Yeah but regardless its going to be rolled into the cost of the vehicle. Be it option or standard, you know what I mean. The Gen Coupe comes with and without the LSD, so it would be nice to have the same for the FR-S.

A good point, but the problem is that Scions come mono-spec... so unless they do a Release Series that is track-themed, it's doubtful that there would ever be a factory option for an LSD. And I am not inclined to pay for a dealer install...

What are your intentions for the car? If it's a dedicated track toy, I would agree with you on swapping the diff for an aftermarket unit. For me personally, this will be a daily driver and weekend track toy and I would prefer the vehicle to come with a factory LSD so that out of the box I just need wheels n tires and suspension... not those plus an LSD...

Part of why I think it is so important is they way they specifically mentioned that the concept puts power down through a limited slip differential. To then have a production car that comes without a feature like that, that they made a point of mentioning would cement Scion's rep as a poser brand. I don't want to see that happen.

[Ryephile]

I voted "nice to have". IMO it's not a deal breaker, especially if the suspension is setup nicely to begin with.

Here's my preference, from least desirable to most desirable:
*Detroit Locker aka spool [stupid for a DD / non-drift / non-drag car]
*Open diff
*Automatic Torque Biasing [ATB] LSD [aka Torsen & Quaife][These diffs belong on the front end of AWD and FWD cars and barely work on RWD cars]
*"viscous" LSD
*typical clutch-pack LSD
*OS Giken clutch-pack LSD

[colHolm]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Am much as I agree with Dragon that it should be an option, other manufacturers have it standard IE Honda Civic Si, to be competitive right out the factory I think it should have one standard and not a paid extra option....honest I'm mixed opinion on this

That is a good point... Look at the competitive set, and for the most part, an LSD is a reasonable expectation to come as standard equipment.

Civic Si
350/370Z
Gen Coupe (V6/GT)
Miata/MX-5
etc.

Now some people may disagree with my competitive set, but I am basing this on manufacturer's dedicated sports cars, which Toyota/Scion is pushing the FR-S as.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by colHolm

A good point, but the problem is that Scions come mono-spec... so unless they do a Release Series that is track-themed, it's doubtful that there would ever be a factory option for an LSD. And I am not inclined to pay for a dealer install...

What are your intentions for the car? If it's a dedicated track toy, I would agree with you on swapping the diff for an aftermarket unit. For me personally, this will be a daily driver and weekend track toy and I would prefer the vehicle to come with a factory LSD so that out of the box I just need wheels n tires and suspension... not those plus an LSD...

Part of why I think it is so important is they way they specifically mentioned that the concept puts power down through a limited slip differential. To then have a production car that comes without a feature like that, that they made a point of mentioning would cement Scion's rep as a poser brand. I don't want to see that happen.

That is incorrect. Scion is Mono-spec in the terms of "Trim Level". Not Options. I.E....there is no SI version of a tC like there is a Civic and a Civic SI. However, options for Factory LSD was and is provided for a 2007+ Scion tC (none on the 2011 because it uses a 6spd trans and the LSD hasn't been developed for it yet). So, they can do the same for the FR-S.

I already have a track toy. The FR-S will see some track but will be my DD as well, so I can turn my tC into a 100% track toy. I am one to turn to aftermarket parts vs factory installed or optioned, so if my FR-S is bare bones then I'm more than happy. I don't want a whole bunch of stuff installed, driving the cost up. I'm into making the car my own rather than settling for picking from a option list from the dealer. Factory options are not aggressive enough for my taste.


PS....there was a limited number of Spec tC's that Scion did sell. It was a bare bones tC that didn't have alloy wheels and didn't have a sunroof either. I was pissed as I would have bought one of those instead, but it came out a later, well after I had my tC.

[colHolm]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

That is incorrect. Scion is Mono-spec in the terms of "Trim Level". Not Options. I.E....there is no SI version of a tC like there is a Civic and a Civic SI. However, options for Factory LSD was and is provided for a 2007+ Scion tC (none on the 2011 because it uses a 6spd trans and the LSD hasn't been developed for it yet). So, they can do the same for the FR-S.

I already have a track toy. The FR-S will see some track but will be my DD as well, so I can turn my tC into a 100% track toy. I am one to turn to aftermarket parts vs factory installed or optioned, so if my FR-S is bare bones then I'm more than happy. I don't want a whole bunch of stuff installed, driving the cost up. I'm into making the car my own rather than settling for picking from a option list from the dealer. Factory options are not aggressive enough for my taste.


PS....there was a limited number of Spec tC's that Scion did sell. It was a bare bones tC that didn't have alloy wheels and didn't have a sunroof either. I was pissed as I would have bought one of those instead, but it came out a later, well after I had my tC.

From what I can find out, the LSD on the previous generation tC was never offered as factory option. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, there have never been any factory options for Scion. My next guess is that it was offered as a PPO installation (Post Production Option), which would occur at the vehicle processing centres, but I couldn't find evidence of that either (not saying it didn't happen). Items that are PPO are usually referred to as "manufacturer installed", which could be misconstrued as "factory installed".

In Canada, we have different port facilities and vehicle ordering systems than the US that might not accomodate such an option, thus relegating it to be offered by the dealers.

I am with you on the aftermarket offerings, which I may look to for wheels, suspension, intake/exhaust, etc. A limited slip differential is not a straightforward install, and in some applications there are modifications required to components like the prop shaft, or driveshafts. This is something I would rather avoid especially considering the additional cost and time required to find a reputable shop to do the work, etc. A factory LSD would be ideal for me.

And, yes I know about the "Spec" tC that was offered. You were right to bring it up, as it does contradict my mono-spec statement

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by colHolm

From what I can find out, the LSD on the previous generation tC was never offered as factory option. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, there have never been any factory options for Scion. My next guess is that it was offered as a PPO installation (Post Production Option), which would occur at the vehicle processing centres, but I couldn't find evidence of that either (not saying it didn't happen). Items that are PPO are usually referred to as "manufacturer installed", which could be misconstrued as "factory installed".

In Canada, we have different port facilities and vehicle ordering systems than the US that might not accomodate such an option, thus relegating it to be offered by the dealers.

I am with you on the aftermarket offerings, which I may look to for wheels, suspension, intake/exhaust, etc. A limited slip differential is not a straightforward install, and in some applications there are modifications required to components like the prop shaft, or driveshafts. This is something I would rather avoid especially considering the additional cost and time required to find a reputable shop to do the work, etc. A factory LSD would be ideal for me.

And, yes I know about the "Spec" tC that was offered. You were right to bring it up, as it does contradict my mono-spec statement

I've owned a tC since 2004. I run the TRD Factory optioned LSD (although I bought mine from another guy for cheaper), it was offered as a factory option (not for the 2005-2006) for the 2007+.

I don't trust to many shops to handle my rides, so I take it upon myself to turn the wrenches on them. My friends and myself do all the aftermarket parts installs as we have the full service manuals to the vehicles we own.

As you mentioned though, you are in Canada. I'm in the States. Unless there was a different Scion site you get directed to in Canada, if you went to the Scion website to build your own tC, you could chose to have the TRD LSD.

This is not true today of course, as I mentioned, there is no LSD for the 2011 tC....yet.

[Sport-Tech]

Back OT - would an LSD not be a near-requirement for those who intend the FR-S to be their DD through snowy winters?

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

Back OT - would an LSD not be a near-requirement for those who intend the FR-S to be their DD through snowy winters?

Are you saying because some people might buy it that live in Snowy areas that Scion would think of that and make it a required item? If so, the answers no. Even a 350z could be had without an LSD.