Better handling by removing/reducing swaybars?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by MGPAX

Here's my suspension.
Toe is virtually zero all the way around from the factory.
I'm going to fix the small difference in left right rear toe...which is already
just barely off zero. (Is this just odd or is rear toe always measured from the
back of the car?...as is reverse of front?)

I'll have it checked again once parts are on.

PAX

Yet another MY2014 with perfectly even cross-camber. Interesting...

[EAGLE5]

I don't think many cars leave the factory with a good alignment, especially factory toe.

[MGPAX]

I appreciate your input. But this is ONLY a daily driver and gets some wringing out every now and again on twisty mountain roads in North Carolina.
My main concern is always going to be tire wear. I believe if you have perfectly even tire wear with all kinds of driving accounted for (As I do and have) then you shouldn't mess with it too much or you'll just cost your self money!

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I cannot overstate how much camber has transformed my car, I would rethink the tophats you just got and get camber plates, no noticeable impacts to NVH on my car and like I said, transformed from what I would call an understeering pig to something that actually rotates. And I've still got toe-in on the rear because I do significantly more street and highway miles than speedy driving. I'm around -2.5 degrees now, some guys are up over -3.

Even just camber/crash bolts to get you up over -1 degree up front will be a noticeable difference.

[MGPAX]

Sorry....Not sure you were asking me. But if you were.. I have PERFECT tire wear and I slip and slide around as much as I can legally get by with!

Originally Posted by Chad_W

On other cars I've run zero toe and -1.5 camber upfront and while I really enjoyed the handling, I would wear out the inner shoulders of my tires 30-40% quicker than the outers. How has that alignment held up in terms of tire wear on the BRZ?

[MGPAX]

Seems there is no one interested in making compensations for left of right had drive. That being said...Car doesn't ever pull on a grade and is really well behaved on slotted concrete roads also. TONS better than the G-37 coupe I traded in on it!

Originally Posted by solidONE

Yet another MY2014 with perfectly even cross-camber. Interesting...

[MGPAX]

I really expected mine to be really bad...just because I abuse the car so much.....It really held up it's alignment well I think.

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I don't think many cars leave the factory with a good alignment, especially factory toe.

[MGPAX]

EDIT: I have since removed the whiteline top strut mounts (KCA335) because of excessive binding and popping of the bearing and springs. Called Whiteline and they said they no longer support this car with this product and believe the car has too much natural caster for their part to work correctly. Working on getting them returned. Wish me luck! :/ I wish I had just gotten camber bolts!! Cheaper and much less NVH and pain in the rump!



So I stayed up late last night and searched the Interlawebathy for info on changing my top hats. Paid off in spades.....

I did both sides in just a couple hours (mostly learning and waiting for bolts to un-seize) by myself in a parking lot with the car's jack, some 4"X 4" pieces of wood and a couple hand tools!

Only removed the top hat's nuts, top strut nut, sway bar nut and wheel...nothing else and all went well.

Added (according to the instructions) 1.5 degrees of static camber and .75 degrees of caster. Puts me about 1.7 static camber and 6.4 degrees caster. And yes. I can already feel it....and I like it!
I took it for a little run this evening and everything it usually does, it did a little bit better. I'm very happy.

Next question. If I added the above degrees to the suspension without moving toe...What do you think the current toe is now? Out more? Or in more. I can't see a diffence. I can see the camber difference, but not the toe. Anyone know how to figure this out? Or have a guess? (I did NOT get an alignment after installing the top hats...that's why I'm asking)
Thanks everyone for the input and advice.
Pax

[MGPAX]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Gotcha, that makes sense then. We just never really like factory alignments or "in spec" by the book alignments.
Understood..It's not pretty, but I'm impressed by how close to stock it still is! (Was)


Toe in is positive, toe out is negative. I'm not following on the where you measure it thing. I'm trying to find a good picture for you but gotta meet with someone in a sec.
Sorry I'm still learning (At 50 Yrs. old! LOL)


Yes definitely! You will see a big improvement especially on stock suspension. Even 0.5 degrees more than what you have would be on the lower end of what I would recommend. See strat61caster's post.

- Andrew

I believe I got a bit more. Won't know for sure until I recheck alignment. But as you say...Car definitely drives with more authority in th e corners! Can't wait for the rear bar this coming week!

[solidONE]

BTW I was able to get as much as -3.0 of camber up front on factory suspension with 2 sets of camber bolts on the knuckles. Although, you might get some clearance issues running that much camber using camber bolts. $60-70 bux for -3 degrees of front camber. You can't beat that. One set of camber bolts will at least get you a good -1.5 degrees if not more for $30 bux. If you want more traction on the front wheels you're gonna need more front camber.

At the old saying goes "once you go negative camber, you'll never go back" or something to that extent. lol

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Chad_W

Awesome data! Thanks for all the input.

Is it fair to say that not all roll is bad? Going completely flat around corners my be a desirable trait, but does that mean it offers the ultimate amount of grip? Can a suspension with a little bit of roll be grippier (like the new Miata for example)?

Keep in mind the Miata gains front camber when the suspension is compressed because it's a double wishbone suspension. So in this case, roll allows more grip. Keep in mind though that lots of roll makes adjusting mid corner weird, and quick transitions sloppy. The excessive amounts of roll in the Miata is so they can run a soft suspension setup for the gray haired folks that buy them in abundance.


Now, compared to our cars where we don't gain camber under compression and well, things start falling apart with lots of roll.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Any of you guys going to PRI this year?


- Andrew

Are you guys setting up a booth? I've been to several trade shows this past few years, but never this one. I think this is probably much more up my alley than the SEMA show, yes? Or is it all the same?

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by solidONE

BTW I was able to get as much as -3.0 of camber up front on factory suspension with 2 sets of camber bolts on the knuckles. Although, you might get some clearance issues running that much camber using camber bolts. $60-70 bux for -3 degrees of front camber. You can't beat that. One set of camber bolts will at least get you a good -1.5 degrees if not more for $30 bux. If you want more traction on the front wheels you're gonna need more front camber.

At the old saying goes "once you go negative camber, you'll never go back" or something to that extent. lol

I've heard that you might want to check tightness often with that setup.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I've heard that you might want to check tightness often with that setup.

I would check and re-torque any piece of heavy load bearing hardware anyways, but the SPC bolts come with a locking nut that holds its position quite well. I've not found any slippage or loss of torque even after running them hard on the track. And by 'hard' I mean spinning the car off the track a few times. lol

Edit: Also want to add that the factory crash bolts tend to slip quite easily according to my buddies that run them on their WRXes.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Are you guys setting up a booth? I've been to several trade shows this past few years, but never this one. I think this is probably much more up my alley than the SEMA show, yes? Or is it all the same?

No booth for us, we spend most of the time moving around talking to other people and seeing new things.

PRI is definitely much more engineering oriented than SEMA and more "racer" oriented as well. SEMA is fun but kind of feels like a huge car show with every vendor ever (good and bad). Lots of neat stuff to see but you can get a lot more done at PRI. And we still have a good time.

- Andrew