Adjustable shocks+ springs vs Coilovers

[gmookher]

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

For those of us that do not have the skill to properly adjust correct Rebound or compression.

really doesnt take any 'skills'...
to bouncy or too stiff, if you cant tell the difference, should you really be upgrading suspension?

[CyberFormula]

adjusting rebound ratio front/rear affect turn in characteristics as well as many other handling changes including weight transfer of the car.

Increasing front rebound and increasing rear compression will hold the nose of the car down and the rear of the car up longer after braking, which will help turn-in response if your car is having turn-in understeer.

as decreasing front rebound and decreasing rear compression will have the opposite effect, both of which has its positive aspects and negatives.

So unless the person messing around with the suspension understands what he wants out of his car for the handling (which will greatly differ from street driving, circuit, autocross, rally),....

it is not a simple "to bouncy or too stiff".


In which case for 98% of drivers out there I say focus on driving the course and improve driving skills using the set up you currently have. Many people will never be able to drive the same track, or autocross layout enough laps to be able to "dial in" the BEST setting for that course

[coachzizi]

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

Let me see if I can help.

First, Coil-overs are not magic. In fact the term is used incorrectly all the time. All coil-over really means is that the coil is over the dampers. The car is like that stock!

Now, what folks mean by the term coil-over is adjustable HEIGHT. This is done via perches that move up and down via threads (like a screw) and these kits come with new springs (usually a race type spring) that are stiffer rate. You can then pick the height you want, within some range. PLEASE NOTE that a lot of "coil-overs" that are adjustable do NOT allow you to adjust the damping setting. And some of the ones that do give that adjustment link compression and rebound damping together. Others have those separate, or only have rebound damping. The latter 2 are much better than the former two.

So you have three things to consider. Damping (how well it works and if it is adjustable). Ride height (do you want to be able to monkey with it or are you ok with a standard drop). And spring rate (which can be altered with an easy spring swap on most "coil-overs").

Here's the thing. There are a LOT of companies that make this sort of stuff. And a lot of it is trash. Most folks don't know that because this stuff isn't cheap and many haven't had the chance to run multiple setups to compare. I have, aside from running a shop where it's my business to know what works (and the fact I have one of these cars too). I also compete very seriously in autocross (and I win) which is hugely shock intensive.

I will tell you flat out that a set of Koni Sports (which are coming if you can be patient) and a nice set of lowering springs (not all are equal there, and some names you "know" tend to be some of the more sucky stuff) will be better than an el-cheapo set of "coil-overs".

Shocks/struts (dampers) are NOT easy things to make, make well, and make work correctly. Koni makes dampers for Formula 1 cars. KW makes dampers for Touring cars and some of the highest performance production cars in the world. Bilstein has some pretty awesome shocks, and I sell that brand too (along with others like Ohlins), but Bilstein's aren't usually my recommendation for a few reasons. Standard ones offer no damping adjustment. And PSS9 and 10's that do, link the compression and rebound together. Well, those do different things and wanting more of one does not in any way mean you want more of the other. In fact you really want more rebound damping, as compression damping is a control of unsprung weight, which generally we don't add a lot of with lighter wheels, etc.

I'm glad this question was asked, it allows me to explain a little of what I know and how I work and what I do. In the end many of us sell the same parts, but not many of us have the same knowledge base. And setting up a car, particularly a RWD is new to many here, but it is not to me.

I've got some 14 SCCA National Championships. I'm helping William Cook with his car (and in fact the base setup I gave to him he barely changed and loves, according to the conversation I had with him tonight).

Sorry, I'm not that familiar with any of this and I'm also in the same situation I guess. I'm planning to drop my car 1 inch as well as throwing on some 18inch rims and wheels. So what do you recommend exactly? The koni sport and springs? I did a little bit of research and found you can adjust the damper but would I be able to adjust my car height? Thank you