Demon Unleashed

[reni]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

All your crumple zones and airbag restraints are messed up by a cage. People think that a cage is extra protection when in street type collisions it can just turn a very safe car into a death trap. All that force that is supposed to be dissipated is now directed straight into your fragile body.
Yet people still install them in street cars all the bloody time. I have heard "Oh the harness will protect me" many times. My standard response is "yes, it will make your body recovery that much easier".

I've not seen any roll cages that really interfere with the crumple zones. In modern cars the area immediately around the passengers is already a cage of sorts anyway as it is quite rigid and designed not to crumple.

Of course, it still dangerous to drive with a cage if not always wearing a helmet and harness.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by reni

I've not seen any roll cages that really interfere with the crumple zones. In modern cars the area immediately around the passengers is already a cage of sorts anyway as it is quite rigid and designed not to crumple.

Of course, it still dangerous to drive with a cage if not always wearing a helmet and harness.

You are correct. There is already a cage built into the car. When you put a cage inside that cage you are interfering with it's function. Yes the cage is quite ridged but it is designed so that in certain impacts where it may be buckled it buckles in certain directions and in a certain manner.
Roll cages, harnesses and helmets are just not designed to work in the types of crashes that occur on the street. Yes they do a great job if you roll it over in a grassy field on the side of a track but will make things way worse when t-boned by the Dodge Ram that ran the red light.

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Not because they say so. Because they are acknowledging an apple is an apple and a grape is a grape. A manufacturer can turn a GTR or a minivan into a drag car if they wanted. Obviously pony cars do get made into drag cars. But with the independent rear suspension and general direction the two are taking with the Mustang and Camero, it would seem an oddity to the market and maybe even too costly for the R&D department to have two directions and two top tier versions of their cars.

Ford went IRS for the Cobra, before the base Mustang had an IRS. Things like that aren't a big deal for a halo car. For the general public though, "pony car" and "muscle car" have become very blurred, much like "sports car", purists will argue only a two seat soft top, is a true sports car. I've been asked about my BRZ, "what kind of sports car is that?", well, it's not, its a 2+2 coupe.

[carsebuco]

And it still looks like a boat.

God, these cars are ugly.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Gunman

Ford went IRS for the Cobra, before the base Mustang had an IRS. Things like that aren't a big deal for a halo car. For the general public though, "pony car" and "muscle car" have become very blurred, much like "sports car", purists will argue only a two seat soft top, is a true sports car. I've been asked about my BRZ, "what kind of sports car is that?", well, it's not, its a 2+2 coupe.

From this article:

Most customers will undoubtedly find the new setup an improvement compared to any of the solid axle layouts that came before. Traditionalists are already decrying the loss of the lighter, simpler arrangement and its inherent durability when subjected to drag racing starts. Rumor has it that Ford Racing is at work on a solid axle installation for drag racers. The retrofit kit likely won’t be suitable for street use, though, because the new IRS-equipped Mustang has a lower rear floor around the now stationary differential housing leaving little room for the motion of a live axle.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/the-h...ar-suspension/

As a result, the basic two-door, four passenger Pony Car characteristics were set:[12][13]

Stylish and sporty long hood, short deck, and "open mouth" styling
Affordable base price (under $2,500 — in 1965 dollar value)
"Off-the-shelf" mass production components
Wide range of often lucrative options to individualize each car
Youth-oriented marketing and advertising

Tellingly, while most pony cars were available with more powerful engines and performance packages—enough to propel some into the muscle car realm—the vast majority were sold with six-cylinder engines or ordinary V8s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_car

Pony car seems to be light, aggressive, affordable and performance driven. Like the link says, the muscle cars of the day were of the same shape, but with larger engines and on larger chassis. This segment seems to be replaced today by sport sedans (A5,M4), save the Challenger, and in a way the Charger. While the history of the Challenger is that of a pony car, the car has shifted into more of a muscle car, and appears to be the only muscle car/grand touring car produced by American manufactures.

Enthusiasts seem to be doing more autocross and track days than drag racing. This trend in track performance has resulted in pony cars shifting to lighter, better handling cars than trying to be light muscle cars. Like the link says, many pony cars were converted into muscle cars by dropping large V8's by the manufactures or enthusiasts, often with drag racing as the goal. The Challenger is more of a glutton than its peers, so it seems to be focusing on the muscle car path over the performance/handling path.

*EDIT* And the GT86 is a sports car. The coupe phrasing is now used for four doors with a fastback or sporty shape, a la, BMW 4 series 4 door grand touring coupe. But the gt86 weight, performance, handling is what makes it a sports car. We are 2+2 on paper, but the rear seats don't fit an average adult. The 911 rear seats may even have more space than our cars, and no one would suggest the 911 isn't a sports car.

[Azzudien]

All the illegal legal stuff aside, this is one hell of a production car even if it cannot be driven on the track.
Why? because Dodge just got the best advertising money can buy, the Demon is being talked about on every car, race, mechanic, driver forum in existence right now.

Production car that can pull the front tires off the ground is damn impressive.

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

*EDIT* And the GT86 is a sports car. The coupe phrasing is now used for four doors with a fastback or sporty shape, a la, BMW 4 series 4 door grand touring coupe. But the gt86 weight, performance, handling is what makes it a sports car. We are 2+2 on paper, but the rear seats don't fit an average adult. The 911 rear seats may even have more space than our cars, and no one would suggest the 911 isn't a sports car.

4 doors? that is a sedan. 2+2 on paper for insurance and tax reasons, but it still has a hard top.

BRZ/FR-S/86 is a Grand Tourer. 2+2 on paper for insurance and tax reasons, but it still has a hard top.

and since we are quoting articles:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ar-definition/

I've gone far enough down this tangent....I still want to see some on come out with an "Exorcist" to scare the Demon back to hell

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Gunman

4 doors? that is a sedan. 2+2 on paper for insurance and tax reasons, but it still has a hard top.

BRZ/FR-S/86 is a Grand Tourer. 2+2 on paper for insurance and tax reasons, but it still has a hard top.

and since we are quoting articles:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ar-definition/

I've gone far enough down this tangent....I still want to see some on come out with an "Exorcist" to scare the Demon back to hell

So...

This is a sports car...


And this...


And definitely this...



But not this because it has a roof...
[IMG]http://files3.porsche.com/filestore/image/multimedia/none/982-718-c7-detail-concept-exterior-xle/preview/c89f***7-017b-11e6-84b6-0019999cd470/porsche-preview.jpg[/IMG]

Gotta love naming nonsense.

[WolfpackS2k]

Calling the Twins a "grand tourer" is the dumbest thing I've seen on the internet this week.


(of course, it is only Monday)

[Cole]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Calling the Twins a "grand tourer" is the dumbest thing I've seen on the internet this week.


(of course, it is only Monday)

Arguing semantics is fun, no?

Ridiculousness aside, I see the merit in this stupid Demon. But it's hilarious that it can't be run legally on a strip because it's too fast and needs a cage. Though, I suppose that's not any more hilarious than those people who buy super cars so that they can sit in bumper to bumper Toronto traffic Monday to Friday, then get their cars impounded for driving 50km/h above the limit on the highway on Saturday.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

But not this because it has a roof...


Gotta love naming nonsense.

The term "sports car" has evolved with the cars. None of those would meet the original definition since they have more than two seats and are not primarily designed for handling. They are just convertibles which is only 1/3 of the old qualifying conditions.


Up until the 70s the old definition of "convertible top, two seats and lightweight /designed for handling" was accurate. Anything with a fixed top was a coupe even though they still could be used as sports cars. That description has evolved over the last few decades to include fixed top cars with more than two seats and the only original requirement left is that it be designed for handling. This greatly increased the number of cars that now are called "sports".


Sports car



Coupe

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Calling the Twins a "grand tourer" is the dumbest thing I've seen on the internet this week.


(of course, it is only Monday)

UMMMMMMMM

[WolfpackS2k]

I suppose that means Porsche GT labeled cars are also their designated grand tourers?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I suppose that means Porsche GT labeled cars are also their designated grand tourers?

Technically yes, yes it does. That is exactly what GT stands for. Now the reality is that they would suck for long grand tours but that is still what the badge means so it is what they are implying by designating it a GT. Much like the term Sports Car it has sort of become bastardized over the years to cover whatever they want to slap the badge on.