For the time attack guys, Traction Control on or off?

[PowderfaceTr.]

Funny video reminds me of this thread.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsY6GO1uSY#t=176"]2014 Lexus IS350 F-Sport AWD Quarter Mile Drag with & without traction control - YouTube[/ame]



You think you can neutral steer better than the Active Torque Vectoring?
Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC) stability and traction control system can apply brake pressure to the inside front wheel

You have better chance avoiding scrubbing of your speed during turning with nannies on.
Most owner have never pulled more than 3G lateral acceleration. You simply cannot do it without computer aids. Formula One cars are brake by wire for a reason.

If I was wrong you wouldn't just respond with smiles.

[swarb]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

Funny video reminds me of this thread.
You think you can neutral steer better than the Active Torque Vectoring?
Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC) stability and traction control system can apply brake pressure to the inside front wheel

You have better chance avoiding scrubbing of your speed during turning with nannies on.
Most owner have never pulled more than 3G lateral acceleration. You simply cannot do it without computer aids. Formula One cars are brake by wire for a reason.

If I was wrong you wouldn't just respond with smiles.

I think he can. I however cannot. I doubt the active torque vectoring is as you say. I don't recall that this car ever had it at least they don't call it that. Torque vectoring is more for understeer in 4wd cars which our car is not. It's rwd and understeer can be neutralized by other means. And he is very hard on his brakes and needs to control his brake temps, and this torque vectoring you speak of would foul that up.

F1 cars are not brake by wire for the sake of this torque vectoring. There is much more to it than just that. Brake bias, boost, changing conditions, tires, etc, etc... us mere mortals probably couldn't grasp it.

I doubt any non-100% race car can hit 3g's without F1 type downforce and full race slicks.

What you smokin?

[swarb]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

If your traction control is kicking in you suck at driving. Removing it is denial.

If you never push the limits you will never surpass it.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

Funny video reminds me of this thread.

You think you can neutral steer better than the Active Torque Vectoring?
Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC) stability and traction control system can apply brake pressure to the inside front wheel

You have better chance avoiding scrubbing of your speed during turning with nannies on.
Most owner have never pulled more than 3G lateral acceleration. You simply cannot do it without computer aids. Formula One cars are brake by wire for a reason.

If I was wrong you wouldn't just respond with smiles.

Wtf did I just watch? It's an automatic IS350 going down a drag strip. I'm not sure what your point is.

Yes, I absolutely CAN neutral steer better than a production based passenger car better than any computer system. Last I checked, there is no production car that will let you throttle steer a car around a corner.

3G lateral? I, in fact, have. Not in a street based car, but I have.

Yes, you are, absolutely, wrong. Something production based is far, far different from a performance based traction control. I've both programmed and used such systems, and will say, beyond a doubt, that they work, but not in the way that you think they do.

You are dead wrong if you think VSA is faster.


VSA will never let you do this. It is, 100%, absolutely faster, than VSA:

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

Not meaning they can use TC in F1.

I find brake assist in my MB works fantastic. I don't think humans could ever modulate pads better than an algorithm.

My BRZ is always flashing. I just try to minimize when it does. Your right it is faster with out it. Driving tight lines wont win 24 le mans and its hard on expensive cars. so why would you train to drive aggressively for half a second gain. You certainly wouldnt do it in a carrera gt or any proper fast car. I admire your little league strategies and bad formfor the sake of a few second. Anyone can cut corners.

Why are you talking RACEcraft in a TIME ATTACK thread? You might have gotten lost

This thread is about getting the fastest possible single lap time, not winning races.

But, to answer your question, you train for that final half second gain, because that can make the difference between becoming a winner, or first place loser, when that half second is what separates you from the race leader.

[PowderfaceTr.]

I lost that post. none the less.

Time attack or endurance make no difference. Tire wear ect. is out of the equation. The line you can take or the line you should be taking is based on track conditions.
If you learn to read what the computer assist is telling you at that moment your next lap will take advantage of that feedback.


Cars are driven are either fast or slowly improving on your compensation for bad driving.
Perhaps you also think a manual transmission get better times than multiple shift clutches.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

I lost that post. none the less.

Time attack or endurance make no difference. Tire wear ect. is out of the equation. The line you can take or the line you should be taking is based on track conditions.
If you learn to read what the computer assist is telling you at that moment your next lap will take advantage of that feedback. You are either fast or slowly improving on your compensation for bad driving

Have you actually ever driven a car on a track before?

[troek]

lol, even in the r35, which has a much more sophisticated tracting control system, people fully disable the vdc in order to get the best lap times. in every test video in japan, the drivers(keichi tsuchiya, nobuteru taniguchi) stress how much the car(86/brz) sucks with vsc on. they refuse to drive it lol.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

Cars are driven are either fast or slowly improving on your compensation for bad driving.
Perhaps you also think a manual transmission get better times than multiple shift clutches.

AT FRS vs MT FRS? The MT is almost always faster.

Now, with the "properly fast cars" you mentioned above... I've logged a few hundred hours seat time in various Ferraris and Lamborghinis, and, well, most of them aren't even offered in MT.

[acro]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Have you actually ever driven a car on a track before?

I think he is one of the internet racers/experts who has never had any track time but just reads one article here or there and then takes it as gospel.

A few race car drivers acting as my instructors have driving my car with and without TC and for them with the VSC on it prevented them from getting the best from this car. Even i realised it was holding me back

The VSC in this car is not tuned to performance, it kills the power way to hard and way to early

BTW what the hell does a drag strip video have to do with VSC on a track day

He is truly lost

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Have you actually ever driven a car on a track before?

I think it's pretty obvious the answer is no.

Or he is delusional.

[Tye300]

This guy obviously has not driven on a track yet. On my local track TC on or VSC on gets me 2 seconds more than with the nannies off. Of course if you don't know what you are doing yet then you don't notice the nannies.
It just sucks when the VSC cuts the power when exiting a turn, or the inside wheel braking by itself when you enter a corner fast.

[AZP Installs]

We haven't seen any gains by doing the pedal dance over regular disengagement of the TC on these cars on track. Some folks say that it makes a difference but from our tracking and racing with the tires and suspension setups we use there hasn't been any differences. Turning off the TC eliminates all but the most intrusive elements and on the road course if you are getting into that you are likely not driving the car smoothly. Pedal dance is required for the halftime show stuff like drifting

-mike

[Takumi788]

My very first track day with the FRS and first time on Watkins I kept the VSC on sport. By the third run it started messing with me. I started with it on in the forth run and ended up creeping through the staging lane to turn it off completely.