30,000 mile service (aka dealer trying to bend me over)

[Blackforge]

I forgot to mention that the charge for the transmission service was originally verbally presented to me as "front end differential service for my AWD". I had a hard time believing anything they said to me at that point after I correcting them with "I don't have that".

Part of these prices probably have to do with the fact they're the only Subaru dealer within 100 miles of the area I live.

[Erci]

Originally Posted by Blackforge

I forgot to mention that the charge for the transmission service was originally verbally presented to me as "front end differential service for my AWD".

Holy crap!! That would be my last service visit to that place.. and I'd reach out to SOA too.. not that they'll give a crap.

[Cliu91]

Complain to head office. People over there are usually alot more helpful and reasonable.

[JesseE]

You guys.... your almost all wrong... The Dealer is charging correctly for almost all of those service's.




you don't think technicians should get paid for the work they do? You don't think service writer should get paid for what they do? At the end of the day this is still a business to run a shop regardless if its a dealer or not. They have to make money and they also have to follow protocols on what they can recommend and what they should be doing based on service intervals.


If its recommended to inspect the fluid at the 30k mark and it looks discolored, or smells burned, then yes it is correct of them to recommend to change the fluid. Dealerships charge anywhere from 110-150$ per hour of service. They also have to mark up the parts they buy from the parts department. So yes a Cabin air filter takes .4 of a hour according to labor guidelines to install even @ 110$(low end) is 44$ and then the cabin air filter itself is 26.16 list price... so there is over 70$ and they only charged you 69.95.... what nice guy's they actually saved you .25$.
.




I just got back from a Direct Injection Class yesterday and DI cars are seeing horrible deposits as early as 15k miles, they are going to be recommending changing how we do injection services which will need to be done every 15k to properly maintain DI cars. Luckily with D-4S we also have port injectors so 30k intervals should still be o.k. but it is defiantly a actual needed service, and putting that stuff in the gas tank is NOT enough you need to have a machine that does it properly.
.
You are also not allowed to spray any cleaners on electric throttle bodies. you can/will ruin them. I see it all the time when people spray carb clean on mafs or electronic TB they fry em up and then you have to go spend a bunch of money replaced a part that just needed a cleaning.
.




Just so you know as well, Subaru has been recommending for a long time that pretty much all the fluids to be changed every 30k... so i'm surprised they didn't have coolant recommendation as well, with the brz/frs maybe they are pushing that to 50k I'll still do all my fluids every 15-25k, because I do my own labor and like to maintain a perfect condition car(mechanically)


So before you all try to say they are trying to screw you, you have to realize its a business, and just like any other business they have to make money. and if you can do your own labor, yes you will save money, but there is still labor being done, and trained professionals command 20-35$ per hour and the business doesn't get free electricity or anything, they have to make money to pay all those bills.
.
For the Fuel induction service, it usually pays 1 hour labor (so 110$) and the fuel induction kits we buy cost us around 40-60$ and we have to mark them up to usually around 110-135$ They usually will clean the throttle body as well as part of the service which could be another .3-.5 depending on the car and how they pay their Technician. so 289 really is a little on the high side, but for a dealership, probably about right.
For the transmission service 200$ is also a little on the high side depending on what fluid they use. most transmission services are not based on a per/car application, so 200$ is probably what they charge on every manual transmission, 120 for a diff fluid change is about right on what it should cost.


Air filter list price is 16$ usually .1 to put it in which is 11$ they saved you money again!
.
.


Can you save money doing it yourself. Hell yes you can. But you have to do work to save that money, and time last I checked is still money so your paying it one way or the other. You don't have to do it at the dealer just keep records and they won't give you too much trouble about warranty stuff. But all you people thinking they are trying to screw him are dead wrong. You don't know what it takes to run a business. It's not easy or cheap.

[AznBRZer]

Originally Posted by JesseE

You guys.... your almost all wrong... The Dealer is charging correctly for almost all of those service's.




you don't think technicians should get paid for the work they do? You don't think service writer should get paid for what they do? At the end of the day this is still a business to run a shop regardless if its a dealer or not. They have to make money and they also have to follow protocols on what they can recommend and what they should be doing based on service intervals.


If its recommended to inspect the fluid at the 30k mark and it looks discolored, or smells burned, then yes it is correct of them to recommend to change the fluid. Dealerships charge anywhere from 110-150$ per hour of service. They also have to mark up the parts they buy from the parts department. So yes a Cabin air filter takes .4 of a hour according to labor guidelines to install even @ 110$(low end) is 44$ and then the cabin air filter itself is 26.16 list price... so there is over 70$ and they only charged you 69.95.... what nice guy's they actually saved you .25$.
.




I just got back from a Direct Injection Class yesterday and DI cars are seeing horrible deposits as early as 15k miles, they are going to be recommending changing how we do injection services which will need to be done every 15k to properly maintain DI cars. Luckily with D-4S we also have port injectors so 30k intervals should still be o.k. but it is defiantly a actual needed service, and putting that stuff in the gas tank is NOT enough you need to have a machine that does it properly.
.
You are also not allowed to spray any cleaners on electric throttle bodies. you can/will ruin them. I see it all the time when people spray carb clean on mafs or electronic TB they fry em up and then you have to go spend a bunch of money replaced a part that just needed a cleaning.
.




Just so you know as well, Subaru has been recommending for a long time that pretty much all the fluids to be changed every 30k... so i'm surprised they didn't have coolant recommendation as well, with the brz/frs maybe they are pushing that to 50k I'll still do all my fluids every 15-25k, because I do my own labor and like to maintain a perfect condition car(mechanically)


So before you all try to say they are trying to screw you, you have to realize its a business, and just like any other business they have to make money. and if you can do your own labor, yes you will save money, but there is still labor being done, and trained professionals command 20-35$ per hour and the business doesn't get free electricity or anything, they have to make money to pay all those bills.
.
For the Fuel induction service, it usually pays 1 hour labor (so 110$) and the fuel induction kits we buy cost us around 40-60$ and we have to mark them up to usually around 110-135$ They usually will clean the throttle body as well as part of the service which could be another .3-.5 depending on the car and how they pay their Technician. so 289 really is a little on the high side, but for a dealership, probably about right.
For the transmission service 200$ is also a little on the high side depending on what fluid they use. most transmission services are not based on a per/car application, so 200$ is probably what they charge on every manual transmission, 120 for a diff fluid change is about right on what it should cost.


Air filter list price is 16$ usually .1 to put it in which is 11$ they saved you money again!
.
.


Can you save money doing it yourself. Hell yes you can. But you have to do work to save that money, and time last I checked is still money so your paying it one way or the other. You don't have to do it at the dealer just keep records and they won't give you too much trouble about warranty stuff. But all you people thinking they are trying to screw him are dead wrong. You don't know what it takes to run a business. It's not easy or cheap.

[Erci]

Originally Posted by JesseE

Just so you know as well, Subaru has been recommending for a long time that pretty much all the fluids to be changed every 30k... so i'm surprised they didn't have coolant recommendation as well, with the brz/frs maybe they are pushing that to 50k I'll still do all my fluids every 15-25k, because I do my own labor and like to maintain a perfect condition car(mechanically)

You're absolutely right.. of course it's a business and like any other business, people have the option to either do it themselves or pay as much as 4 times more for the same products and services.

You do, however, seem to follow dealer mentality that fluids should be changed more often than is recommended by actual car maker.

BRZ manual: "replace coolant at 11 years or 137,500"

Will it hurt to change it more frequently? Of course not. Is it necessary? Not at all.. pure profit for the dealership. Same goes for oil changes which many dealers still suggest should be done every 3k miles.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by Blackforge

I forgot to mention that the charge for the transmission service was originally verbally presented to me as "front end differential service for my AWD". I had a hard time believing anything they said to me at that point after I correcting them with "I don't have that".

Part of these prices probably have to do with the fact they're the only Subaru dealer within 100 miles of the area I live.

I can't fault the dealer for trying to make money. When I bought my car new first shipment May 2012 the dealer stood by no markups and I paid MSRP which was a good deal at the time and market. When I went to the finance guy (you know, the one trying to sell you all the add ons) he tried to sell me the extended warranty.

How? He showed me a blown turbo and told me how much it cost out of pocket to replace it. Then I asked, does my car have a turbo? His face was priceless. Then I told him I probably won't keep it stock through the 3 year warranty.

He asked, you are going to tear it apart huh? I just shrugged.

You have to take the good with the bad at dealerships and make your way through. I still would recommend them because they gave me no bullshit on purchase price and didn't try and force me into add ons when I rejected them.

Originally Posted by JesseE

.... REASONABLE DEALER INSIDER RESPONSE ...

I agree with you. I realized I needed to try and DIY when I paid nearly 1,000 for an interval service on my first car, a honda accord. While the service turned out great and solved my vibrating brakes issue, I couldn't get over the fact "what did these guys do that I couldn't for THAT MUCH MONEY?!"

And here I am today servicing my own car in my driveway for A TON CHEAPER. Sure there are bumps in the road as far as tool cost and learning trial and error, but even if I end up even to what I paid a dealer the satisfaction of owning the tools and ability to do it myself is priceless.

If you have a driveway and preferably a garage to store some tools I think it is a no brainer to start learning to do it yourself.

It may bit save you money (probably will) but the satisfaction, reward, and time efficiency (working to your own schedule) is 100% priceless.

[sluflyer06]

Originally Posted by JesseE

You guys.... your almost all wrong... The Dealer is charging correctly for almost all of those service's.

Can you save money doing it yourself. Hell yes you can. But you have to do work to save that money, and time last I checked is still money so your paying it one way or the other. You don't have to do it at the dealer just keep records and they won't give you too much trouble about warranty stuff. But all you people thinking they are trying to screw him are dead wrong. You don't know what it takes to run a business. It's not easy or cheap.

Nice try Subaru dealership. You must have mistaken this forum for the moms with minivan club.

[B-R-Z]

IMO, they pad the labor times when deciding what to charge you. It does not take a trained mechanic at a dealership 24 minutes to replace a cabin filter. I know its a business etc, but you have to draw the line somewhere. It's already a high hourly rate (IMO), why fluff the numbers on top of it? Do one or the other, not both (good rate, fluff time OR high rate, accurate time).

My comment was geared towards most of the work being easy to DIY that it's absurd (to me) to pay a mechanic/dealership an hour of labor for a 15-30 minute job @ ~$110/hour.

A persons free time (ie weekends or after work) is not 'money'. It's only money if the person has a potential to make money during the time they spend working on their car, which I don't... so you're not really paying for it one way or another. You're only paying for labor at a mechanic/dealer.

[Erci]

Originally Posted by B-R-Z

IMO, they pad the labor times when deciding what to charge you. It does not take a trained mechanic at a dealership 24 minutes to replace a cabin filter. I know its a business etc, but you have to draw the line somewhere. It's already a high hourly rate (IMO), why fluff the numbers on top of it? Do one or the other, not both (good rate, fluff time OR high rate, accurate time).

My comment was geared towards most of the work being easy to DIY that it's absurd (to me) to pay a mechanic/dealership an hour of labor for a 15-30 minute job @ ~$110/hour.

A persons free time (ie weekends or after work) is not 'money'. It's only money if the person has a potential to make money during the time they spend working on their car, which I don't... so you're not really paying for it one way or another. You're only paying for labor at a mechanic/dealer.

+1! Well stated.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by JesseE

You guys.... your almost all wrong... The Dealer is charging correctly for almost all of those service's.
.

I will only cite one example of Bullshit to the above:
"Rear Diff Service - $120"

This takes almost exactly 5 minutes and about $20 worth of fluid (that is being generous).
What are they doing for the other 55 minutes? Looking for the correct socket?

And some automechanics will charge the max that the book states for labor even when they know they can do it in a fraction of the time.
Sometimes they will double book on labor.
Toyota could charge the full labor (on my camry) on a water pump AND a timing belt replacement when the labor overlaps almost 100%.

And some automechanics are honest, MY Toy dealer was replacing the water pump under warranty (camry) and called and asked me if I would like them to put in a new timing belt for $40 out of my pocket.
Labor and parts to do that is almost $1000 so they were doing me a huge favor for zero profit.

[AVodka14]

Originally Posted by JesseE

You guys.... your almost all wrong... The Dealer is charging correctly for almost all of those service's.




you don't think technicians should get paid for the work they do? You don't think service writer should get paid for what they do? At the end of the day this is still a business to run a shop regardless if its a dealer or not. They have to make money and they also have to follow protocols on what they can recommend and what they should be doing based on service intervals.


If its recommended to inspect the fluid at the 30k mark and it looks discolored, or smells burned, then yes it is correct of them to recommend to change the fluid. Dealerships charge anywhere from 110-150$ per hour of service. They also have to mark up the parts they buy from the parts department. So yes a Cabin air filter takes .4 of a hour according to labor guidelines to install even @ 110$(low end) is 44$ and then the cabin air filter itself is 26.16 list price... so there is over 70$ and they only charged you 69.95.... what nice guy's they actually saved you .25$.
.




I just got back from a Direct Injection Class yesterday and DI cars are seeing horrible deposits as early as 15k miles, they are going to be recommending changing how we do injection services which will need to be done every 15k to properly maintain DI cars. Luckily with D-4S we also have port injectors so 30k intervals should still be o.k. but it is defiantly a actual needed service, and putting that stuff in the gas tank is NOT enough you need to have a machine that does it properly.
.
You are also not allowed to spray any cleaners on electric throttle bodies. you can/will ruin them. I see it all the time when people spray carb clean on mafs or electronic TB they fry em up and then you have to go spend a bunch of money replaced a part that just needed a cleaning.
.




Just so you know as well, Subaru has been recommending for a long time that pretty much all the fluids to be changed every 30k... so i'm surprised they didn't have coolant recommendation as well, with the brz/frs maybe they are pushing that to 50k I'll still do all my fluids every 15-25k, because I do my own labor and like to maintain a perfect condition car(mechanically)


So before you all try to say they are trying to screw you, you have to realize its a business, and just like any other business they have to make money. and if you can do your own labor, yes you will save money, but there is still labor being done, and trained professionals command 20-35$ per hour and the business doesn't get free electricity or anything, they have to make money to pay all those bills.
.
For the Fuel induction service, it usually pays 1 hour labor (so 110$) and the fuel induction kits we buy cost us around 40-60$ and we have to mark them up to usually around 110-135$ They usually will clean the throttle body as well as part of the service which could be another .3-.5 depending on the car and how they pay their Technician. so 289 really is a little on the high side, but for a dealership, probably about right.
For the transmission service 200$ is also a little on the high side depending on what fluid they use. most transmission services are not based on a per/car application, so 200$ is probably what they charge on every manual transmission, 120 for a diff fluid change is about right on what it should cost.


Air filter list price is 16$ usually .1 to put it in which is 11$ they saved you money again!
.
.


Can you save money doing it yourself. Hell yes you can. But you have to do work to save that money, and time last I checked is still money so your paying it one way or the other. You don't have to do it at the dealer just keep records and they won't give you too much trouble about warranty stuff. But all you people thinking they are trying to screw him are dead wrong. You don't know what it takes to run a business. It's not easy or cheap.

I am sure none of us on here know business 101. I had no idea that it takes money to keep a business running. I thought candy canes and gum drops were sufficient.

Sounds like you like donating money to the dealership. That's not where I prefer my money go. Do you think that the dealership charges that much to pay techs and overhead? The dealership/company have more than that in mind. The dealership/company is only concerned about making profit. Profit is what drives the business. Payroll and overhead is only part of the formula and the method to their madness. The mark up is for the dealership/company to make profit. And the uninformed population should be thanked by the dealership/company for their success. Welcome to business class 101.

[ZionsWrath]

That is true for most people, but it is hard to explain it to them.

I have tried to explain to people making minimum wage or close to it that working on your own car most of the time is A SHIT LOAD cheaper than taking it somewhere.

But they have these uneducated ideas that since you are not somehow OFFICIAL (certified, a "mechanic", a dealer etc.) that the work is not good enough or better.

It is like the same thing when talking to people putting turbos on their car and asking them if they go to the track. Most of the time they are are just dumbfounded at why you track and don't do street racing highway pulls and such.

Present the idea and a basic explanation, if they can't be bothered with reason just move on.

[B-R-Z]

My reasoning isn't solely based on money either, but the money factor is half of it.

I don't trust anyone touching my car. To a mechanic your car is just a piece of their 9-5. To me, my car is my child (not trying to sound gay, you know what I mean). It gets the extra TLC when the owner is doing the work. Plus you know exactly what you touched and may have accidentally broke/scratched/left loose etc.