OFT vs. Ecutek

[steve99]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Likewise, we also tend to devalue things that many typical customers truly appreciate on a day to day basis (handheld convenience, not having to muck with comm ports or software licenses, stability, diagnostic simplicity, free tunes, a large open community and the ability to resell without losing $$ etc,.). At the end of the day, everyone has different priorities. And it's probably not a good idea to project one's own needs to that of others/your customers. After 15yrs of being in the tuning business, I finally learned this lesson. Just recently, in fact

Why I decided on OFT -other people may be different

1. Small Stand alone device - no laptop required once loaded with tunes, easily stored in car - no battery to go flat - stable device for flashing ie not a laptop which will be used for other things than flashing

2. Access to updated tunes for current set-up or future mods including E85 option and supercharger (doubt I will do it though) - things always evolve and change so its nice not to have to continually "pay" for re-tunes/updates as tuners find better ways of doing things ect

3. User can flash back to stock ROM for dealer servicing no fingerprint left in ROM (very important)

4. Good support

5. User Can de-marry from vehicle and sell unit or mates(friends) can try out tune on their car before they buy their own OFT unit (good sales feature)

6. logging/diagnostics available on unit

7. Custom E-tuning available if you ever needed it.

8. Ability to make changes to tune if you so desire

9. Reasonable price considering access to tunes .


Yes I could have bought a Tactrix Box for half the price and used the tunes, but I would rarther pay a bit extra for the support. If I was an experienced Tuner or lots of previous experience maybe I would have gone that way

[Xero-Limit]

The EcuTek suite is continuously developed, highly refined, and developed for professionals to be efficient and effective. This allows a multitude of both e-tuners and countless local tuners now that support it and use the hardware/software. Because of how efficient the software is the tuning time goes a long way. At 150/hr that's an important facet.

If you can't afford it then stick to open source. Tablets are nice for portability and watching datalogs, but we're tuning a 28k car with often times 10k+ in work. Portability is not a concern, it's not a cell phone. If you're having to constantly tweak it you're doing it wrong. And now that the base ecutek software package allows DIY editing, it is no less open than anything else for those who want to share.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

If you can't afford it then stick to open source. Tablets are nice for portability and watching datalogs, but we're tuning a 28k car with often times 10k+ in work. Portability is not a concern, it's not a cell phone. If you're having to constantly tweak it you're doing it wrong. And now that the base ecutek software package allows DIY editing, it is no less open than anything else for those who want to share.

Mike,

Pretty aggressive response mate
"If you can't afford it then stick to open source."

Maybe I can afford it but I choose to spend my money elsewhere and maybe not on cars

Not everyone is going to drop "times 10k+ on mods". Agreed if someone is going that far then it probably does not matter to them and its their choice.

"If you're having to constantly tweak it you're doing it wrong."

Most thing's I find are continuous improvement (maybe all the Formula 1 teams get it wrong as they are continually tweaking their cars) as you learn more you find better ways of doing things or other options become available.

As stated everyone is different and has different priorities and some people like to learn and do a bit more themselves rather than pay someone else to do it. We might not get it right or do it as well as as so called "professional" but its the satisfaction from learning as you go.

[the new guy]

And what are the thoughts on BRZ Edit in the middle of these two?


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[DJCarbine]

OFT vs ECUTEK

The mac vs pc argument of the ft86 world

Pick a tuner, use what they are comfortable with.
Likewise, research the features and discuss them with your tuner.

I have Ecutek and a SD hybrid tune and its fantastic.
Likewise there are OFT users with MAF tunes that will report as equally fantastic. I am going e85 and hopefully 350+ whp so I like the ability to run SD if the MAF isn't up to it. I also like flex fuel and the refined nature of the software and its abilities that are at the disposal of my tuner. Unless you run into limitations of the software you wouldn't know the difference between two cars with different tuning software IMO. Its all in the TUNER

Research, find a tuner, make your own educated choice.
People on either side of the argument will only tell you how what they picked was the best thing since cam phasing

[jamesm]

i accomplished in a day with ecutek what took months to accomplish with open source tools. that's just fact. that's not saying oft isn't right for the 90% of the market that is more interested in having a tune than in tuning, but if you're into tuning and tweaking and want to save a lot of time an effort, my experience can only lead me to recommend ecutek. custom maps just make everything so much easier the price difference is really immaterial. not to mention the capabilities.... you can't even do a safe overboost fuel cut without it.

really these products don't compete directly. the target markets are entirely different, and neither has the capability of serving everyone. oft can't do what a lot of (especially boosted) people need it to do, and you can't get free ots maps with ecutek. it's two products for two distinctly different consumers.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by the new guy

And what are the thoughts on BRZ Edit in the middle of these two?


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brzedit is great software, with absolute garbage for support. not a single update in the entire time i've owned it, completely unresponsive to any sort of support request. having used it i can vouch that it'll work, but with oft and ecutek out there and so much better supported, i'd stay far far away. not to mention it's stolen open source code, which is just wrong to begin with and shouldn't be rewarded.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i

really these products don't compete directly. the target markets are entirely different, and neither has the capability of serving everyone. oft can't do what a lot of (especially boosted) people need it to do, and you can't get free ots maps with ecutek. it's two products for two distinctly different consumers.

+ 100

[Cross]

I personally have both now, I have tested a lot of the options for the FT86 and I came from tuning vehicles running Megasquirt 1-3 systems (Tuner Studio) and Domestics Via HP Tuners (You haven't been spoiled by logging and such until you have to stop using VCM Scanner... lol).

In my personal opinion (Others have theirs and I respect it this is mine), OFT is really moving along. Yes you could do a Tatrix (SP?) and Rom Raiders etc but the support Shiv provides to all is really whats made the OFT not just its ease of use.
OFT is been out around 6 months I believe and look at the hard work and advancements it has seen. Its a solid and reliable product from someone who has been providing such products to the BMW community already.
I believe it will be around for a long time to come and continue to show us even more features as time goes on.

EcuTek is a good product to, right now its more mature and has a very large support base but unlike say Tuner Studio and HP Tuners its not as open. By this I mean you should already be comfortable with tuning because sharing of information or tunes is not nearly as common.
(HP Tuners has a Tune Repository where users share tunes and information including base files and Megasquirt/Tuner Studio provide a ton of end user support as well as forums directly with both company's and on most car forums)
Finding tune files with EcuTek is well... spars so if you're wanting to look at tunes and get a feel for where tuners generally look this is also not going to really help do so. Again making it clear you need to be familiar and confident or not care and just try.
However right now EcuTek does support some really nice custom features and better logging (I still would really like to see that side of EcuTek grow, it could have so much more I would love table outputs like in VCM Studio) and it really is well thought out. For the 600 Starting Price Tag without all of the Racerom features it is a good product and for I believe another 300 more you can get those really nice features found in the Racerom that you will not find elsewhere.
The Price is higher but the abilities are currently much greater.

Personally I would say that unless you are familiar with what tuning involves or have tuned before you might want to stick with the OFT and Rom Raider.Even if you are Familiar having Shiv there to help is a huge bonus. The price is excellent and the growth is amazing so far!

If you know what you are doing then you already know EcuTek is worth the look and has a lot more ready for you at this moment now. I have both because I needed more powerful logging for my SuperCharger build in progress. However I personally tend to recommend Shiv to most and the OFT.

[jamesm]

until oft can do a boost cut, sd and raise the load limit, it pretty much comes down to boosted == ecutek, na == oft. at least that's how i see it. there's no reason anyone should buy a unichip or brzedit at this point, and open source isn't really useable in the real world yet.

that's an oversimplification, but it's the gist of it.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by jamesm

until oft can do a boost cut, sd and raise the load limit, it pretty much comes down to boosted == ecutek, na == oft. at least that's how i see it. there's no reason anyone should buy a unichip or brzedit at this point, and open source isn't really useable in the real world yet.

that's an oversimplification, but it's the gist of it.

I've run boosted applications with OFT. 10psi vortech cars no issue. Currently running a SC in our shop car now. I agree that an overboost protection feature would be a good idea for those running turbos since overboost is always a possibility given a faulty wastegate line or a poorly ported wastegate housing. It is something I will work on when time permits.

But with any of the currently available supercharger kits, both overboost function and SD conversion is completely unnecessary.

At the end of the day, not everyone plans to go turbo and make 400+whp on their FRS/BRZ. And if they do, they are better left going to a local (and competent) tuner and letting him use whatever he is familiar with.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I've run boosted applications with OFT. 10psi vortech cars no issue. Currently running a SC in our shop car now. I agree that an overboost protection feature would be a good idea for those running turbos since overboost is always a possibility given a faulty wastegate line or a poorly ported wastegate housing. It is something I will work on when time permits.

But with any of the currently available supercharger kits, both overboost function and SD conversion is completely unnecessary.

At the end of the day, not everyone plans to go turbo and make 400+whp on their FRS/BRZ. And if they do, they are better left going to a local (and competent) tuner and letting him use whatever he is familiar with.

see.. we agree then . you will definitely run into the maf limit tuning the JR supercharger on e85, though. maf tube is far too small. nels hit 5v on pump gas.

i don't think any competent tuner would suggest running a 400+whp turbo 86 without an overboost cut, regardless of what he's familiar with, but i could be wrong.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by jamesm

see.. we agree then . you will definitely run into the maf limit tuning the JR supercharger on e85, though. maf tube is far too small.

And what is there to prevent him from getting a larger MAF tube and keep on trucking?

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by jamesm

see.. we agree then . you will definitely run into the maf limit tuning the JR supercharger on e85, though. maf tube is far too small.

Then make it a bit bigger. Very simple and effective. And far more sound than going to a hybrid SD conversion IMHO.

But realistically, I don't know how many people intend to swap SC pulls to make more boost every time they want to run E85. Most people are just going to run the standard 10psi boost pressure and just flash in a map that optimizes timing/fuel for E85.