Looming competition

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by The359

GM tried this before with the Solstice/Sky, those didn't turn out very competitive.

They also were in production for 4 years until GM eviscerated Pontiac and Saturn. I would also guess the development budget for these cars was nonexistent as GM was dealing with its horrible management leading up to its 2009 bailout. Given more time and money, I would be willing to bet that the GM twins would have improved.

But, that's just conjecture. We'll never really know about these twins. I think GM should go for it with the new lightweight RWD coupe, american car haters be damned. I welcome competition in this niche, drives the automakers to "one-up" each other and improve their cars. I for one am tired of people stretching to make comparisons for this car, I want some actual competition with something besides the Miata.

[Anthony]

Yes, competition is good for us drivers. The US manufacturers have no excuse for making piss poor cars.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I think NOLA cost $37,000,000 and they only made one of the two tracks they were supposed to. I'd build one myself, but I'll be happy just to have this little Scion paid off.

EDIT: And yes, you're very lucky. I'm making a terrible facial expression right now. Be aware it's directed toward you.

I just remembered, I heard Englishtown has a road course too that's worth trying.

[BRZfan]

I agree - not for the 'bare bones' car but a solid competitor, in all respects (handling,fun) to the FR-S/BRZ. This is what the Chevy 130R may be. One other poster mentioned Ford as well altho it would have to be something smaller than the Mustang.

This type of competition will be a lot more fun for the track and the road whatever car one drives - Chevy, Toyota, Subaru or Ford..

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

While I agree with this, the selfish side of me would love to see a bunch of manufacturers jump into this small segment and eat into each other's profit margins. In the short run, we as consumers would see some great cars at low price points.

But looking at it from a long-term perspective, what we really need is for this segment to grow. We need to increase consumer demand for lightweight sports cars so that manufacturers will turn their attention towards it and regularly be able to turn profits in it.

[7thgear]

from what i've been reading.. i think they are gonna miss the mark on this one.. AGAIN

american car manufacturers seem to still think the rest of the world doesn't exist and that people will buy whatever just because it's there.

[R3d]

just like I love reminding my father, GM has been going trough hit and miss trough out their whole career. Its really simple actually, they are so insecure themselves they cant create a proper fan base. like the cobalt they deleted, every time they do things like this it helps lower the resale value of the car ( when a models stops being sold ppl stop wanting it!)

GM is digging its own grave by touching everything but with out dominating anything !

Let them copy the fr-s, then change the name in 2 years and delete the model in 3 because it doesn't sell !!!!

Honda is making wonders with the civic ( that has nothing to do with the first one they made but its still named the civic and ppl know what it is just by hearing the name!)

lol rant over !! XD

[R3d]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

american car manufacturers seem to still think the rest of the world doesn't exist and that people will buy whatever just because it's there.

this is actually often the case, ever seen anyone driving a chevy hhr or a pt cruiser or even a "CUBE" ugh

[dem00n]

Originally Posted by R3d

just like I love reminding my father, GM has been going trough hit and miss trough out their whole career. Its really simple actually, they are so insecure themselves they cant create a proper fan base. like the cobalt they deleted, every time they do things like this it helps lower the resale value of the car ( when a models stops being sold ppl stop wanting it!)

GM is digging its own grave by touching everything but with out dominating anything !

Let them copy the fr-s, then change the name in 2 years and delete the model in 3 because it doesn't sell !!!!

Honda is making wonders with the civic ( that has nothing to do with the first one they made but its still named the civic and ppl know what it is just by hearing the name!)

lol rant over !! XD

That's why everyone is hating on Honda for not making an actual car for the enthusiast?


I'm intrigued by this offering, i think they can pull it off.

Have you seen the new Corvette?

The ATS came out of nowhere, it was almost as good as 3 series and it was the first 3 series competitor they ever made! Chevy almost made a car as good as the Germans, that's a great first try.

I'll put my trust into them.

Oh and the Solstice/Sky was a pretty good car made from what? Two people, considering the budge they had?

I don't understand all the GM hate, they are doing pretty good this year. Z-28 Camaro coming out. The ZL1 is still for sale and that's a great car.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I just remembered, I heard Englishtown has a road course too that's worth trying.

I'm not even mad anymore.

[ZionsWrath]

The BRZ is about as bare bones a DD car I would want and probably most people.

Most people need something like this in a sports/sporty car

Looks good
A/C
Radio with USB/AUX
Doesn't have an obnoxious hard ride
cruise control
a cup holder

[The359]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

They also were in production for 4 years until GM eviscerated Pontiac and Saturn. I would also guess the development budget for these cars was nonexistent as GM was dealing with its horrible management leading up to its 2009 bailout. Given more time and money, I would be willing to bet that the GM twins would have improved.

But, that's just conjecture. We'll never really know about these twins. I think GM should go for it with the new lightweight RWD coupe, american car haters be damned. I welcome competition in this niche, drives the automakers to "one-up" each other and improve their cars. I for one am tired of people stretching to make comparisons for this car, I want some actual competition with something besides the Miata.

But that usually seems to be the way with GM and small performance cars, they make a nice start but then the floor drops out on them, probably because all of the money is going into the Corvette and Camaro instead.

The Fiero had potential, failed, the VX220/Speedster were lackluster, and the Sky/Solstice were finally getting nice turbocharged coupes when everything went under. Even look at the underwhelming response to the GTO and G8. And all signs indicate that the new Chevy SS is going to be equally underwhelming. It's not even offered with a manual, and is expensive as hell!

[BRZfan]

I suspect that General Motors and Mr Reuss will be tenacious. No road is impassable.

Originally Posted by The359

But that usually seems to be the way with GM and small performance cars, they make a nice start but then the floor drops out on them, probably because all of the money is going into the Corvette and Camaro instead.

The Fiero had potential, failed, the VX220/Speedster were lackluster, and the Sky/Solstice were finally getting nice turbocharged coupes when everything went under. Even look at the underwhelming response to the GTO and G8. And all signs indicate that the new Chevy SS is going to be equally underwhelming. It's not even offered with a manual, and is expensive as hell!

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Exactly. If there's one thing we need, it's more less. Much much more less. Give me some solid mechanical steering with no power steering, manual windows, no back seats, and a safety rating of "all drivers are considered already dead." 1,900lbs, 200hp, <$30,000 new. Not impossible.

I drive pretty much that. Manual windows are silly because electric ones actually weigh less, but everything else you mention is about right. Frontal crash, I'm finished if it's >25mph, side has no protection at all, I don't even have the extra reinforcing bar in the 2003 and up model.

200hp/1900lbs at that price is impossible though. They can't spend money to make a =< 2L engine hit 200hp, so they will need to go bigger displacement, adding weight. My car is 2195lbs and the chassis stiffness is a joke, says the people on Spyderchat though I wouldn't know since I haven't driven much else. 1900lbs is not feasible if you want a stiff chassis, even Lotus couldn't do it with aluminum and Alfa is barely managing it with carbon fiber.

However I feel like a 2200lbs hardtop with a solid 160hp should be doable under 30k. Please no power steering, or if you absolutely must, put the wimpiest possible 1lb electric motor on there for assist, it's not that hard to muscle the wheel a bit when the car is that light and the engine is in the correct place, but it feels much better when you can actually feel the steering rack moving through the wheel. To make the car more salable I'm fine with a crappy 4 speaker sound system, cup holder, air conditioning, but nothing else please. Who needs cruise control? Just rest your foot against the center console while the gas is depressed. Cloth seats all the way.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Manual windows are silly because electric ones actually weigh less, but everything else you mention is about right.

Yeah, I actually knew that, but was lying to make a point. Although if someone figured out how to make manual windows lighter, I'd want them then. I've already gotten a quote on lexan all around for the FR-S. I just need to weigh the glass one day to see if it's worth the money. At that point, they wouldn't roll down at all. I'd just have a sweet ass little slider.