ecu flash?

[chadstyle]

Well he just did two of yours yesterday..with amazing results. You spent nearly 30 minutes bashing him and Perrin on the phone but he put you to shame yesterday. I'd call out the two people as they're both active forum members but I'm the only one that has balls to speak the truth.

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

Well he just did two of yours yesterday..with amazing results. You spent nearly 30 minutes bashing him and Perrin on the phone but he put you to shame yesterday. I'd call out the two people as they're both active forum members but I'm the only one that has balls to speak the truth.

You just never give up do you.

I really could careless what you say, or what you claim I said to you for 30 min on the phone.

If saying I think we have a better product than the people you wanted me to price match upset you.. i'm sorrrrry lol

No, I'm not sorry.. I think this is pretty funny though

John

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Visconti

You just never give up do you.

I really could careless what you say, or what you claim I said to you for 30 min on the phone.

If saying I think we have a better product than the people you wanted me to price match upset you.. i'm sorrrrry lol

No, I'm not sorry.. I think this is pretty funny though

John

No, I wanted YOU to tell me why YOUR product was better!! Instead you spent that time bashing Perrin and FA20Club.

I'm glad you think it's a joke but its no joke when you're losing customers by the day to the competition.

Lastly, the phrase is "couldn't care less" not "could care less".. Education is important man!! Maybe with all the free time you have on your hands you can take some night courses. I'd select a few in business management and a few in the English language.

You should take some advice from me bro...I have cars that cost 3 times as much as your house!! Trust me, I zillowed it. Lol

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

No, I wanted YOU to tell me why YOUR product was better!! Instead you spent that time bashing Perrin and FA20Club.

I'm glad you think it's a joke but its no joke when you're losing customers by the day to the competition.

Lastly, the phrase is "couldn't care less" not "could care less".. Education is important man!! Maybe with all the free time you have on your hands you can take some night courses. I'd select a few in business management and a few in the English language.

You should take some advice from me bro...I have cars that cost 3 times as much as your house!! Trust me, I zillowed it. Lol

lol

[Nightbringer]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

Lastly, the phrase is "couldn't care less" not "could care less".. Education is important man!! Maybe with all the free time you have on your hands you can take some night courses. I'd select a few in business management and a few in the English language.

You should take some advice from me bro...I have cars that cost 3 times as much as your house!! Trust me, I zillowed it. Lol

It detracts from your argument when you deviate from unbiased intellectual statements and commence attacking someone personally, not their argument. Ad Hominem. That education, bro. I also don't really care how much you've paid for your cars. You have money, thusly your opinions are superior?

When you say FA20Club's Dyno results were superior to Visconti's, did Visconti also have the opportunity to tune these same vehicles in person on a dyno? Where are the graphs? So far all I've seen from everyone making attacks on John is talk, and nothing factual to back it up. Please show me how it's better and don't fill up a page worth of someone else's thread fighting in the sandbox.

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Visconti

lol

How bout this John.. Put your money where your mouth is. Lets run your tune on my car, get it dialed in, then run Tony's tune on my car. Same day, same dyno, no bs...just some back to back runs. If you put down more power with your tune I'll pay you double what you would normally charge. If your tune puts down less power I owe you nothing.

We can have whoever you like present to be sure it's a fair and honest comparison. Shut me up, once and for all.

[Nightbringer]

It's been a year since a reasonably-accurate comparison has been done. I'd love to see a Master Tuner shootout, and I'm sure the board agrees---that'd actually be useful information, unlike most of the "John's mean" posts. Find yourself an UNBIASED customer. Same car, same modifications, same dyno, same day. Post the numbers and let the hardwork of Visconti, FA20Club, etc speak for itself and then let the petty squabbling die.

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Nightbringer

It detracts from your argument when you deviate from unbiased intellectual statements and commence attacking someone personally, not their argument. Ad Hominem. That education, bro. I also don't really care how much you've paid for your cars. You have money, thusly your opinions are superior?

When you say FA20Club's Dyno results were superior to Visconti's, did Visconti also have the opportunity to tune these same vehicles in person on a dyno? Where are the graphs? So far all I've seen from everyone making attacks on John is talk, and nothing factual to back it up. Please show me how it's better and don't fill up a page worth of someone else's thread fighting in the sandbox.

Dyno charts will be posted today. I personally won't call out these two people as this conversation is between John and me. If they choose to post them here then you will see exactly what I'm talking about. These are two serious contenders in the FI crowd here.

Secondly, when he constantly tells me and others about all his business and how great he is and blah blah blah he is insinuating that he is better than the rest because of these things. He thinks I didn't use him for a tune cause he would match Perrin or FA20 on price. Both of those are false assumptions. I have cars in my garage that are ridiculously priced and most people think I'm insane for owning but I bought them because they PERFORM! I will spend more on a tune if it performs better no doubt!! Unfortunately he never once told me his was better...just told me the others suck.

If you see my post above I have offered to pay DOUBLE what John charges for a tune if he can out perform his competition. That will end this once and for all. Put your money where your mouth is!!

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Nightbringer

It's been a year since a reasonably-accurate comparison has been done. I'd love to see a Master Tuner shootout, and I'm sure the board agrees---that'd actually be useful information, unlike most of the "John's mean" posts. Find yourself an UNBIASED customer. Same car, same modifications, same dyno, same day. Post the numbers and let the hardwork of Visconti, FA20Club, etc speak for itself and then let the petty squabbling die.

I agree!! I've offered up my car and I will stay out of the process. I said it above, he can have anyone he likes present for the session or he can come down and do it head to head. I legitimately want to see him side by side with FA20Club. If his tune puts out more power across the board he doubled his money on a tune and I won't ever doubt his work again.

Unfortunately all I've seen is his old customers with complaints of poor customer service and issues with their cars coming to Tony and once Tony dials them in they are happy. I'm giving John the opportunity to do this for me in my dime.

[Nightbringer]

If this conversation was between you and John you'd have done it over PM and not cluttered up Jybrd's thread with this bullshit. So far, John's the only one between the two of you that offered him helpful advice: tune and header are the best bang for the buck. <--- That was the point of the thread, incase it's been buried in the bickering.

We all want a tune that performs better and most are willing to pay for it. Yes, we've heard you say FA20Club is superior. I've heard Toma say BRZEdit is superior. If you post dynos from these two turbo cars, unless you have charts from the same dyno on the same day with Visconti's tune it doesn't really show a damn thing. Everyone is cognicent of how easy it is to mislead with dyno results. Also you never clarified: did Visconti have the opportunity to tune these cars on a dyno, or was only FA20Club's?

As far as your bet to pay double... How about you find an arbitrary source that isn't already entrenched in personal conflict? Most chiming in here are already biased. Witnesses would even the playing field, but how about spending the time and effort to give BACK something to this community and assemble a proper, scientific test of ALL the major tune offerings on the market at this juncture? That's MY dare to all of you.

Comparing what you guys can do in person on a dyno doesn't help 99% of this community. Tune remotely via logs. Get the customer's car dialed in on each tune, and then run them back to back on the same day and see who wins.

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Nightbringer

If this conversation was between you and John you'd have done it over PM and not cluttered up Jybrd's thread with this bullshit. So far, John's the only one between the two of you that offered him helpful advice: tune and header are the best bang for the buck. <--- That was the point of the thread, incase it's been buried in the bickering.

We all want a tune that performs better and most are willing to pay for it. Yes, we've heard you say FA20Club is superior. I've heard Toma say BRZEdit is superior. If you post dynos from these two turbo cars, unless you have charts from the same dyno on the same day with Visconti's tune it doesn't really show a damn thing. Everyone is cognicent of how easy it is to mislead with dyno results.

As far as your bet to pay double... How about you find an arbitrary source that isn't already entrenched in personal conflict? Most chiming in here are already biased. Witnesses would even the playing field, but how about spending the time and effort to give BACK something to this community and assemble a proper, scientific test of ALL the major tune offerings on the market at this juncture? That's MY dare to all of you.

All of the cars that have been re tuned came in with Johns tune loaded and many revisions to get to that perfect tune dialed in. Then these cars were placed on a dyno and run a few times to get a solid baseline of Visconti's tune on these cars.

Once completed, Tony reflashed the car and started tuning. He made gains on every single run after. One car was in the 230-240 range with John's tune and when I left an hour later had cracked the 300 mark. Same car, same parts, same dyno, same day, just a different tune. That's not some small increase..that's HUGE!

The reason I offer up my car is this...I'm not running a single part from FA20Club or from Visconti. I have a Perrin CAI, intake tube, and full header back exhaust. I'm running the Borla UEL and a lightweight crank pulley. The standard mods before going FI and just like John said, and I agree with, the header/tune is the best bang for the buck. My car has quality parts and is set up well. It's not some FI beast at this point that most forum members will never have. It's "attainable" by the masses.

I think that makes it the perfect car for a comparison. I'll throw on an oil cooler before the event and turn over my keys to John and Tony and stand back and watch. If John wins, he doubles his money on a tune and makes a believer out of me. If Tony wins then he proves what I and many others have already seen with our own eyes.

It's a fair contest and I'm the one footing the bill. I'll even pay for the dyno time for as long as each of them need to get it dialed in. Obviously if I'm willing to lay out all this cash I'm doing it for the community and for what this thread is all about...

I don't think anyone can argue with the terms and setup of this being unfair in any way, shape, or form.

[chadstyle]

Or, to make it more realistic for the majority of members in the community...how bout neither tuner is present with the car. They can both log and tune remotely. Same car, same dyno, same day.

[Nightbringer]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

Or, to make it more realistic for the majority of members in the community...how bout neither tuner is present with the car. They can both log and tune remotely. Same car, same dyno, same day.

This. I respect the way you're handling this now, by the way. I think your car as a testmule sounds ideal---full bolt ons, no boost, nothing out of reach to the average customer. I'd still like to see a wholly unbiased independent customer though. Not doubting your credibility here, I just don't want there to be any manner of doubt when the results come in.

As far as the turbo cars above, I still don't think it's a fair comparison. The number delta is definitely notable, but comparing a dyno tune to a remote tune is still apples and oranges for me. I hope you guys end up doing this test though. I'd love to see FA20Club vs Visconti vs Whomever with logs, graphs and total transparency.

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Nightbringer

This. I think your car as a testmule sounds ideal---full bolt ons, no boost, nothing out of reach to the average customer. I'd still like to see a wholly unbiased independent customer though. Not doubting your credibility here, I just don't want there to be any manner of doubt when the results come in.

This is why I said my car is perfect for this. I will be going FI in the not too distant future but for now my car is perfect for this. Tony AND John both agree that headers are key on these cars.

I understand that you think I'm biased...I'm not biased, I've just seen more success stories with my own eyes come from the FA20 camp. I've also heard many negative personal experiences with John. I only ever post my personal experiences with the man and what I have personally seen with my eyes. I don't share stories that others have told me...just what I KNOW is true because I have verified it with my own eyes and ears.

I am willing to turn my car over to an independent 3rd party while these runs are completed and tunes flashed. They can use my ecutek license and cable and car and I'll merely watch as a bystander. We can video every run. This isn't about bias or me wanting one person to win over another...this is showing the entire FT86 community what they can expect to see when tuning with bolt on parts and these two tuners.

I love the guys at Perrin but they don't offer E85 support and I doubt they would want to get involved in this. They shoot for reliable, safe tunes for the masses.

Again, if there are any other areas of concerns over "bias" please address them because I want to remove all bias from this test. I'm sure FA20Club is down...just need John to sign up. I'm the only person laying out money so John and Tony have nothing to lose and everything to gain.